[arin-discuss] ARIN billing practice

[Alex Ryu]

I think that's billing department internal policy. 
And they are already forcing the policy that if you don't pay first/initial fee, no IP Address or ASN will be issued. 
If they are really bad guys, they won't use their name. 
So why should we put this into policy? 
As I said, ARIN is already collecting fee first, then issue the number resources. 
If there is any unpaid bill, I'm sure ARIN Billing department will make comment about that during initial application. 
For on-going application, I'm sure that the membership organization will be checked for whether they are good-standing member or not. 

So I think it is already enforced by ARIN as a part of internal policy. 

I don't think it is necessary to list all stuffs as another policy. 

Alex


-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Rhett [mailto:jrhett at svcolo.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:27 AM
To: Alex Ryu
Cc: Schiller, Heather A (HeatherSkanks); arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN billing practice

It's not a question of whether or not they are spammers.   It's a  
question of whether or not they have a known bad payment history.    
Like any entity which collects money, ARIN knows who doesn't pay their  
bills.   ARIN shouldn't provide allocations to them.

On Sep 21, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Alex Ryu wrote:
> I think that doesn't fly.
> ARIN is not law enforcement agency.
> Who's going to judge whether they are really known spammers?
> With what grounds?
> It may turn ARIN into legal battle for discrimination or something  
> like that.
>
> Alex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
> ] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:20 AM
> To: Schiller, Heather A (HeatherSkanks)
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN billing practice
>
> There is also a much simpler change:   ARIN could refuse allocations
> to people who are known bad payers.  This will chop him off at the
> knees.
>
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Schiller, Heather A (HeatherSkanks)  
> wrote:
>> I was reading Chris Morrow's comment on Nanog - about spammers..
>>
>> "The end of the discussion was along the lines of: "Yes, we know this
>> guy is bad news, but he always comes to us with the proper paperwork
>> and
>> numbers, there's nothing in the current policy set to deny him  
>> address
>> resources. Happily though he never pays his bill after the first 12
>> months so we just reclaim whatever resources are allocated
>> then."  (yes,
>> comments about more address space ending up on BL's were made, and
>> that
>> he probably doesn't pay because after the first 3 months the address
>> space is 'worthless' to him...)"
>>
>> ..and got to wondering, "Why doesn't ARIN charge first and last years
>> "rent" on resource allocations?"
>>
>> If you notify ARIN before your bill is due, that you will be  
>> returning
>> the resource and not renewing, you get a refund.  If you don't notify
>> ARIN and your bill lapses, then ARIN isn't out the money they would
>> have
>> gotten from you, during the time they hold your resource before/ 
>> during
>> revocation for non-payment. (since most folks keep using it, you
>> should
>> still have to pay for it..)
>>
>> I'm not claiming this would make the spam thing any better.. just
>> raise
>> the financial bar, make them have to do work if they want their money
>> back.
>>
>> I don't know whether I'm even in favor of this or not.. but just  
>> about
>> every other 'utility' type service has this practice, and maybe this
>> is
>> worth considering.  Maybe there is a reason ARIN doesn't do this..?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --Heather
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>
> -- 
> Jo Rhett
> Senior Network Engineer
>
> Silicon Valley Colocation
> Support Phone: 408-400-0550
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Jo Rhett
Senior Network Engineer

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550