[arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like to RETURN a /20

Fri Jul 24 21:09:24 EDT 2009

Where does it say you can't designate a proxy as the DMR? I believe we
can designate someone as our proxy by assigning them as DMR.

Best Regards,

Martin

On 7/24/09, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> Designated Member Representative is the person at an ARIN member
> organization
> who is designated to vote in ARIN elections.
>
> There is no voting directly on policy matters.  Instead, the Advisory
> Council evaluates
> feedback from the community in a variety of fora, including, but not
> limited to:
>
> 	PPML
> 	Meetings
> 	Remote Participation at Meetings
>
> If the advisory council determines that a policy proposal is good
> policy and that there
> is community consensus around the proposal, then, we recommend it for
> adoption
> to the Board of Trustees.
>
> The Board, upon receiving such a recommendation from the AC reviews
> the policy
> to confirm that the ARIN Policy Development Process was properly
> followed and
> that the policy would not be a violation of the Boards fiduciary
> duties to the membership
> of the organization. If the board finds that those two conditions are
> met, they
> ratify the policy and staff implements it.
>
> This is a summary from memory, so, I apologize if it contains any
> mistakes on the
> details, but, I think it is a reasonably accurate overview of the
> process.
>
> Bottom line is that you can't designate a proxy, but, you CAN make
> your input known
> to the process by participating on PPML even if you do not attend a
> meeting.
>
> Further, you can attend the meeting through remote participation at
> nearly zero
> cost if you have an internet connection. It will still cost you
> whatever the bandwidth
> costs and your time to participate, but, at least it doesn't require a
> huge travel
> budget and is not a major time commitment (meetings only last 2 days).
>
> Owen
>
> On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:17 AM, VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC wrote:
>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> Can this be pooled?  In other words, could "many of us" designate
>> "some of
>> us"?
>>
>> ~V
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe Maimon [mailto:jmaimon at chl.com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 2:09 PM
>> To: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like to
>> RETURN
>> a /20
>>
>> Arin allows for Designated Member Representative
>>
>> While this will help with election representation, it wont help much
>> to
>> show consensus for policies.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC wrote:
>>> I agree.  There are plenty of good operations doing a few million a
>>> year
>> in
>>> sales who seriously cannot afford the combined travel costs and
>>> lost time
>> of
>>> key staff. Sending the receptionist doesn't do much good.  I really
>>> feel
>>> like the small ISP's need to band up, share expenses and delegate/
>>> hire a
>>> competent and loyal representative.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Brown [mailto:john at citylinkfiber.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:37 PM
>>> To: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC; Owen DeLong
>>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example,I'd like to
>>> RETURN
>> a
>>> /20
>>>
>>> When I was on the ARIN AC once upon a time, I often mentioned that
>>> the
>>> small guy wasn't considered as much as ARIN should be.  I was told
>>> that
>>> I was incorrect.  Hmm, I still think the small ISP, rural ISP is
>>> still
>>> overlooked.
>>>
>>> The small rural ISP doesn't have the time, or in many cases the
>>> money to
>>> fly and attend a ARIN meeting in some "expensive" city.   I had hoped
>>> that more local out-reach could be done with local meetings.
>>>
>>> Associating ARIN meetings with NANOG meetings, while generally a good
>>> idea, also doesn't solve the issue for the small guy.  Must small
>>> ISP's
>>> don't attend NANOG either, for much the same reasons.
>>>
>>> This creates an impression that personal participation in ARIN is
>>> limited to the "BIG Guys", those that can afford to spend $1500 or
>>> more
>>> in travel and other costs to attend an ARIN meeting.
>>>
>>> As has been mentioned many a time on this and other lists,
>>> participation
>>> is key.  Whinning is non-productive, constructive suggestions are
>>> productive.
>>>
>>> There is also an educational ramp up issue to look at.  Many of
>>> those on
>>> this list have been involved with netops for decades, many of the
>>> questions have been asked and answered before, newer people now
>>> getting
>>> involved will ask those questions again.  It may be useful for the
>>> AC to
>>> work on a list of "common" questions for the website.
>>>
>>> 1. Why can or can't ARIN just make XXX return their space.
>>> 	Pre ARIN      allocated
>>> 	Pre InterNIC  allocated
>>>
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In general the community needs to keep an open mind to the questions
>>> that come forward.  There could be good ideas in there.
>>>
>>> A detailed look at the space, and really what is in use vs allocated
>>> needs to be conducted.
>>>
>>>
>>> With respects to IPv6.  Bottom line.  That train is coming to town,
>>> get
>>> your depot built and ready to receive the cargo, or be by-passed.
>>> The
>>> fact that your provider doesn't have it yet is an invalid excuse.
>>> Get
>>> it working internally, use a tunnel broker, but get it working.  Then
>>> BUG THE HECK out of your providers sales guy every other week.  They
>>> will get the message.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of VAUGHN
>>>> THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:08 AM
>>>> To: 'Owen DeLong'
>>>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example,I'd
>>>> like to RETURN a /20
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for fleshing that out Owen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the issue is that small ISP's (overworked and often
>>>> overwhelmed) have not been paying attention.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the "community" is being represented by a subset that
>>>> seems to have (opinion here, not asserting as fact) been
>>>> under-representing the small ISP's, which by the way make up
>>>> the bulk of the community - the silent majority in fact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hope I am not the only part of the sleeping bear that has
>>>> been awakened, but believe we are paying more attention now.
>>>> You might not be so lonely on that stance should it come up again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~Vaughn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 11:15 AM
>>>> To: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
>>>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd
>>>> like to RETURN a /20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 	
>>>> 	PS.  I also just learned (from an offline conversation,
>>>> quote below) that
>>>> 	ARIN recently set a policy to allow the selling of IP
>>>> space (paid transfers)
>>>> 	between organizations.  Does this seem counter to good
>>>> stewardship in a time
>>>> 	of impending depletion?  If I have my head on straight,
>>>> this is a pretty
>>>> 	kind act towards those same early/big assignment
>>>> holders, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You say "ARIN recently set" as if ARIN was some third party
>>>> setting policy
>>>>
>>>> independent of input from the membership or the community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While the policy proposals in question took a tortured and
>>>> circuitous route
>>>>
>>>> to adoption, it was definitely done with community input and support
>>>>
>>>> throughout the process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is a matter of record that I was the only dissenting voice
>>>> in passing
>>>>
>>>> policy proposal 2009-1, and, that I did so strictly because I
>>>> felt that the
>>>>
>>>> community's interests were not represented in the removal of
>>>> the sunset
>>>>
>>>> clause. Given the lack of support for subsequently restoring
>>>> the sunset
>>>>
>>>> clause both in the AC and apparently on PPML, I can only conclude
>>>>
>>>> that my belief the community wanted the sunset clause may well have
>>>>
>>>> been incorrect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While I remain unconvinced that a liberalized transfer policy is
>>>> good
>>>>
>>>> policy, I am convinced that of the community which was participating
>>>>
>>>> in policy development at the time the issue was being
>>>> considered, there
>>>>
>>>> was/is strong support for such a policy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do not believe the ARIN should adopt bad policy just because there
>>>>
>>>> is strong community support for it.  However, I do believe
>>>> that if ARIN
>>>>
>>>> (specifically the AC and the BoT) are going to go against strong
>>>>
>>>> community support, then, they should be somewhat certain that the
>>>>
>>>> policy in question is bad policy. I am not sufficiently
>>>> certain that the
>>>>
>>>> relaxed transfer policy is bad policy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The opinions above are mine and mine alone.  I am not speaking
>>>>
>>>> for the AC and many members of the AC disagree with me on
>>>>
>>>> this subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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