[arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like to RETURN a /20
John Brown
john at citylinkfiber.com
Fri Jul 24 13:59:53 EDT 2009
www.arin.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
> [mailto:Vaughn at SwiftSystems.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 11:55 AM
> To: 'Heidi Dohse'; John Brown; arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd
> like to RETURN a /20
>
> Ditto, can someone provide info links to this event in Michigan?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heidi Dohse [mailto:heidi at nuwave.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:42 PM
> To: 'John Brown'; 'VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC';
> arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd
> like to RETURN a /20
>
> Ok - I hadn't planned to go to the Michigan meeting. I have
> changed my mind.
>
>
> In the past I have worked for the "Big Guy" with lots of resources.
> Currently I am working with a rural "small guy" provider and
> I am the resource (sad but true). When I first started, 15
> years ago, the IP world was pretty much just data traffic.
> Now the IP world consists of Voice, Data and convergent
> communication networks that deliver it all. The number of IP
> driven end-user devices is just going to keep growing. I
> guess it will take all of us working together so we don't
> break the network. My company is in the process of making
> sure that we will be IPv6 compatible, but need to request
> additional IPv4 space too.
>
> If I can help be an advocate for small ISPs - though I can't
> guarantee that I have a clue (per the email below :-) - I am
> willing to be involved.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Heidi Dohse
> NuWave Communications
> heidi at nuwave.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of John Brown
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:51 AM
> To: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC; arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd
> like to RETURN a /20
>
> Actually what the small ISP's need to do is to place people
> on the AC and on the BoT.
>
> Find people within the small guy world that have clue and get
> them nominated and then get them elected to the BoT and or
> the AC. (note well, I believe that the BoT and AC have
> generally done a good job.)
>
> Internet governance is a "stakeholder" (ducking now) driven
> process. So if you give a darn, you have to participate in a
> meaning full manner.
> And be willing to invest in your time for the betterment of
> the entire community.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> > [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of VAUGHN
> THURMAN -
> > SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:41 AM
> > To: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example,I'd like to
> > RETURN a /20
> >
> > I agree. There are plenty of good operations doing a few million a
> > year in sales who seriously cannot afford the combined travel costs
> > and lost time of key staff. Sending the receptionist
> doesn't do much
> > good. I really feel like the small ISP's need to band up, share
> > expenses and delegate/hire a competent and loyal representative.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Brown [mailto:john at citylinkfiber.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:37 PM
> > To: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC; Owen DeLong
> > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example,I'd like to
> > RETURN a /20
> >
> > When I was on the ARIN AC once upon a time, I often
> mentioned that the
> > small guy wasn't considered as much as ARIN should be. I was told
> > that I was incorrect. Hmm, I still think the small ISP,
> rural ISP is
> > still overlooked.
> >
> > The small rural ISP doesn't have the time, or in many cases
> the money
> > to
> > fly and attend a ARIN meeting in some "expensive" city. I
> had hoped
> > that more local out-reach could be done with local meetings.
> >
> > Associating ARIN meetings with NANOG meetings, while
> generally a good
> > idea, also doesn't solve the issue for the small guy. Must small
> > ISP's don't attend NANOG either, for much the same reasons.
> >
> > This creates an impression that personal participation in ARIN is
> > limited to the "BIG Guys", those that can afford to spend $1500 or
> > more in travel and other costs to attend an ARIN meeting.
> >
> > As has been mentioned many a time on this and other lists,
> > participation is key. Whinning is non-productive, constructive
> > suggestions are productive.
> >
> > There is also an educational ramp up issue to look at.
> Many of those
> > on this list have been involved with netops for decades,
> many of the
> > questions have been asked and answered before, newer people now
> > getting involved will ask those questions again. It may be
> useful for
> > the AC to work on a list of "common" questions for the website.
> >
> > 1. Why can or can't ARIN just make XXX return their space.
> > Pre ARIN allocated
> > Pre InterNIC allocated
> >
> > Etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > In general the community needs to keep an open mind to the
> questions
> > that come forward. There could be good ideas in there.
> >
> > A detailed look at the space, and really what is in use vs
> allocated
> > needs to be conducted.
> >
> >
> > With respects to IPv6. Bottom line. That train is coming to town,
> > get your depot built and ready to receive the cargo, or be
> by-passed.
> > The fact that your provider doesn't have it yet is an
> invalid excuse.
> > Get it working internally, use a tunnel broker, but get it
> working.
> > Then BUG THE HECK out of your providers sales guy every
> other week.
> > They will get the message.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
> > > [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of VAUGHN
> > THURMAN -
> > > SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
> > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:08 AM
> > > To: 'Owen DeLong'
> > > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by
> example,I'd like to
> > > RETURN a /20
> > >
> > > Thanks for fleshing that out Owen.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think the issue is that small ISP's (overworked and often
> > > overwhelmed) have not been paying attention.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think the "community" is being represented by a subset
> > that seems to
> > > have (opinion here, not asserting as fact) been
> > under-representing the
> > > small ISP's, which by the way make up the bulk of the
> > community - the
> > > silent majority in fact.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hope I am not the only part of the sleeping bear that has been
> > > awakened, but believe we are paying more attention now.
> > > You might not be so lonely on that stance should it come up again.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ~Vaughn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 11:15 AM
> > > To: VAUGHN THURMAN - SWIFT SYSTEMS INC
> > > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example,
> > I'd like to
> > > RETURN a /20
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PS. I also just learned (from an offline conversation,
> > quote below)
> > > that
> > > ARIN recently set a policy to allow the selling of IP
> > space (paid
> > > transfers)
> > > between organizations. Does this seem counter to good
> > stewardship in
> > > a time
> > > of impending depletion? If I have my head on straight,
> > this is a
> > > pretty
> > > kind act towards those same early/big assignment
> > holders, isn't it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You say "ARIN recently set" as if ARIN was some third
> party setting
> > > policy
> > >
> > > independent of input from the membership or the community.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > While the policy proposals in question took a tortured and
> > circuitous
> > > route
> > >
> > > to adoption, it was definitely done with community input
> and support
> > >
> > > throughout the process.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is a matter of record that I was the only dissenting voice in
> > > passing
> > >
> > > policy proposal 2009-1, and, that I did so strictly
> because I felt
> > > that the
> > >
> > > community's interests were not represented in the removal of the
> > > sunset
> > >
> > > clause. Given the lack of support for subsequently restoring the
> > > sunset
> > >
> > > clause both in the AC and apparently on PPML, I can only conclude
> > >
> > > that my belief the community wanted the sunset clause may
> well have
> > >
> > > been incorrect.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > While I remain unconvinced that a liberalized transfer
> > policy is good
> > >
> > > policy, I am convinced that of the community which was
> participating
> > >
> > > in policy development at the time the issue was being considered,
> > > there
> > >
> > > was/is strong support for such a policy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do not believe the ARIN should adopt bad policy just
> because there
> > >
> > > is strong community support for it. However, I do
> believe that if
> > > ARIN
> > >
> > > (specifically the AC and the BoT) are going to go against strong
> > >
> > > community support, then, they should be somewhat certain that the
> > >
> > > policy in question is bad policy. I am not sufficiently
> > certain that
> > > the
> > >
> > > relaxed transfer policy is bad policy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The opinions above are mine and mine alone. I am not speaking
> > >
> > > for the AC and many members of the AC disagree with me on
> > >
> > > this subject.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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