[arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.
Ted Mittelstaedt
tedm at ipinc.net
Thu Jul 23 18:35:34 EDT 2009
I could have sworn MS had a /8 at one time. The reason why
I'm sure they did was because I'm positive I cited this years
ago as evidence of MS being a bad corporate citizen during
an online debate.
I'm not surprised they don't have one now. The departure of
Bill Gates was the point at which MS stopped being an
irresponsible, loudmouthed teenager company and started to
grow up. For example, their writing and releasing of the
Linux drivers under the GPL2 to allow Linux sessions to run under
HyperV would have been unthinkable during the "Halloween papers"
days.
Now, Apple, OTOH.... ;-)
Ted
Owen DeLong wrote:
> A quick trip through whois reveals:
>
> owen-delongs-macbook-pro:owen (265) ~ % whois -h whois.arin.net '>MSFT'
>
> OrgName: Microsoft Corp
> OrgID: MSFT
> Address: One Microsoft Way
> City: Redmond
> StateProv: WA
> PostalCode: 98052
> Country: US
> Comment:
> RegDate: 1998-07-10
> Updated: 2008-08-25
>
> AbuseHandle: ABUSE231-ARIN
> AbuseName: Abuse
> AbusePhone: +1-425-882-8080
> AbuseEmail: abuse at msn.com
>
> AbuseHandle: HOTMA-ARIN
> AbuseName: Hotmail Abuse
> AbusePhone: +1-425-882-8080
> AbuseEmail: abuse at hotmail.com
>
> AbuseHandle: MSNAB-ARIN
> AbuseName: MSN ABUSE
> AbusePhone: +1-425-882-8080
> AbuseEmail: abuse at msn.com
>
> AdminHandle: MSFTP-ARIN
> AdminName: MSFT-POC
> AdminPhone: +1-425-882-8080
> AdminEmail: iprrms at microsoft.com
>
> NOCHandle: ZM23-ARIN
> NOCName: Microsoft Corporation
> NOCPhone: +1-425-882-8080
> NOCEmail: noc at microsoft.com
>
> TechHandle: MSFTP-ARIN
> TechName: MSFT-POC
> TechPhone: +1-425-882-8080
> TechEmail: iprrms at microsoft.com
>
> Resources Used By Organization:
> Microsoft Corp (AS20046) MICROSOFT-BOS 20046
> Microsoft Corp (AS8068) MICROSOFT-CORP---MSN-AS-BLOCK 8068 - 8075
> Microsoft Corp (AS13811) MSLI 13811
> Microsoft Corp (AS14719) MICROSOFT-CORP-BCENTRAL 14719
> Microsoft Corp (AS13399) MICROSOFT-CORP---MSN-AS-2 13399
> Microsoft Corp (AS3598) MICROSOFT-CORP-AS 3598
> Microsoft Corp (AS5761) MICROSOFT-CORP---MSN-AS---SATURN 5761
> Microsoft Corp (AS6182) MICROSOFT-CORP--MSN-AS-4 6182
> Microsoft Corp (AS6194) MICROSOFT-CORP--MSN-AS-3 6194
> Microsoft Corp (AS6291) MICROSOFT-CORP---MSN-AS 6291
> Microsoft Corp (AS23468) MICROSOFT-CORP-XBOX-ONLINE 23468
> Microsoft Corp LVLT-MSFT-8-6-176 (NET-8-6-176-0-1) 8.6.176.0 - 8.6.176.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOF33-108-0 (NET-12-28-108-0-1) 12.28.108.0 -
> 12.28.108.127
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOF81-163-0 (NET-12-178-163-0-1) 12.178.163.0 -
> 12.178.163.31
> Microsoft Corp Q0523-63-148-123-240 (NET-63-148-123-240-1)
> 63.148.123.240 - 63.148.123.247
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-151-87-64 (NET-63-151-87-64-1) 63.151.87.64 -
> 63.151.87.71
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-3FA132-6 (NET-63-161-50-0-1) 63.161.50.0 -
> 63.161.50.127
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-3FA132 (NET-63-161-50-128-1) 63.161.50.128 -
> 63.161.50.255
> Microsoft Corp SPRINTLINK (NET-63-173-42-128-1) 63.173.42.128 -
> 63.173.42.255
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-170-64 (NET-63-236-170-64-1) 63.236.170.64 -
> 63.236.170.71
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-186-64 (NET-63-236-186-64-1) 63.236.186.64 -
> 63.236.186.71
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-187-104 (NET-63-236-187-104-1)
> 63.236.187.104 - 63.236.187.111
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-187-128 (NET-63-236-187-128-1)
> 63.236.187.128 - 63.236.187.135
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-187-160 (NET-63-236-187-160-1)
> 63.236.187.160 - 63.236.187.167
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-198-64 (NET-63-236-198-64-1) 63.236.198.64 -
> 63.236.198.71
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-63-236-198-152 (NET-63-236-198-152-1)
> 63.236.198.152 - 63.236.198.159
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233050-4 (NET-64-15-170-192-1) 64.15.170.192 -
> 64.15.170.199
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233050-5 (NET-64-15-177-0-1) 64.15.177.0 -
> 64.15.177.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233050-6 (NET-64-15-178-0-1) 64.15.178.0 -
> 64.15.178.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-15 (NET-64-15-229-96-1) 64.15.229.96 -
> 64.15.229.127
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233608-1 (NET-64-41-193-0-1) 64.41.193.0 -
> 64.41.193.255
> Microsoft Corp HP-64-77-82-96 (NET-64-77-82-96-1) 64.77.82.96 -
> 64.77.82.103
> Microsoft Corp HP-64-77-93-80 (NET-64-77-93-80-1) 64.77.93.80 - 64.77.93.95
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-1 (NET-64-85-70-32-1) 64.85.70.32 - 64.85.70.47
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-2 (NET-64-85-81-96-1) 64.85.81.96 -
> 64.85.81.103
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-3 (NET-64-85-81-104-1) 64.85.81.104 -
> 64.85.81.111
> Microsoft Corp WLCO-TWC1057147-MICROSOFT (NET-64-200-211-16-1)
> 64.200.211.16 - 64.200.211.31
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-1BLK (NET-65-52-0-0-1) 65.52.0.0 - 65.55.255.255
> Microsoft Corp Q0112-65-114-175-128 (NET-65-114-175-128-1)
> 65.114.175.128 - 65.114.175.159
> Microsoft Corp SPRINTLINK (NET-65-170-29-0-1) 65.170.29.0 - 65.170.29.7
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S232995-1 (NET-66-35-208-48-1) 66.35.208.48 -
> 66.35.208.63
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S232995-2 (NET-66-35-209-120-1) 66.35.209.120 -
> 66.35.209.127
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S232995-3 (NET-66-35-211-128-1) 66.35.211.128 -
> 66.35.211.191
> Microsoft Corp Q0903-67-132-133-96 (NET-67-132-133-96-1) 67.132.133.96 -
> 67.132.133.103
> Microsoft Corp WLCO-TWC1057147-MICROSOFT-1 (NET-69-44-126-80-1)
> 69.44.126.80 - 69.44.126.95
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT (NET-131-107-0-0-1) 131.107.0.0 - 131.107.255.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-BBLK (NET-157-54-0-0-1) 157.54.0.0 -
> 157.60.255.255
> Microsoft Corp ERMS-6799349 (NET-165-121-253-232-1) 165.121.253.232 -
> 165.121.253.239
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-VEXCEL (NET-192-92-90-0-1) 192.92.90.0 -
> 192.92.90.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-CORP-MSN-2 (NET-192-197-157-0-1) 192.197.157.0
> - 192.197.157.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT18 (NET-192-237-67-0-1) 192.237.67.0 -
> 192.237.67.255
> Microsoft Corp NETBLK-MSOFT-NET (NET-198-105-232-0-1) 198.105.232.0 -
> 198.105.235.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT19 (NET-198-137-97-0-1) 198.137.97.0 -
> 198.137.97.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT2 (NET-198-180-74-0-1) 198.180.74.0 -
> 198.180.75.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT3 (NET-198-180-95-0-1) 198.180.95.0 -
> 198.180.97.255
> Microsoft Corp FON-3338832128690 (NET-199-2-137-0-1) 199.2.137.0 -
> 199.2.137.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT17 (NET-199-6-92-0-1) 199.6.92.0 - 199.6.94.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-CORP-MSN-1 (NET-199-60-28-0-1) 199.60.28.0 -
> 199.60.28.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-1 (NET-199-103-90-0-1) 199.103.90.0 -
> 199.103.91.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-CORP-MSN-3 (NET-199-103-122-0-1) 199.103.122.0
> - 199.103.122.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-IPV6-BLK (NET6-2001-4898-1)
> 2001:4898:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 -
> 2001:4898:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-2 (NET-204-79-7-0-1) 204.79.7.0 - 204.79.7.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-NET1 (NET-204-79-27-0-1) 204.79.27.0 -
> 204.79.27.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT8 (NET-204-79-101-0-1) 204.79.101.0 -
> 204.79.101.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-HK (NET-204-79-135-0-1) 204.79.135.0 -
> 204.79.135.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-PLACEWARE-1 (NET-204-79-179-0-1) 204.79.179.0 -
> 204.79.179.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT11 (NET-204-79-180-0-1) 204.79.180.0 -
> 204.79.181.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-PLACEWARE-2 (NET-204-79-188-0-1) 204.79.188.0 -
> 204.79.188.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT13 (NET-204-79-195-0-1) 204.79.195.0 -
> 204.79.197.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-PLACEWARE-2 (NET-204-79-252-0-1) 204.79.252.0 -
> 204.79.252.255
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-CC5F6F (NET-204-95-96-0-1) 204.95.96.0 -
> 204.95.111.255
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-CC5F95-8 (NET-204-95-149-0-1) 204.95.149.0 -
> 204.95.149.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFTDENVER (NET-204-133-231-0-1) 204.133.231.0 -
> 204.133.231.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT15 (NET-204-140-77-0-1) 204.140.77.0 -
> 204.140.77.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT16 (NET-204-140-80-0-1) 204.140.80.0 -
> 204.140.83.255
> Microsoft Corp FON-343451648081865 (NET-204-182-144-0-1) 204.182.144.0 -
> 204.182.159.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT19-NET58 (NET-204-231-58-0-1) 204.231.58.0 -
> 204.231.58.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT20 (NET-204-231-76-0-1) 204.231.76.0 -
> 204.231.76.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT26 (NET-204-231-192-0-1) 204.231.192.0 -
> 204.231.192.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT27 (NET-204-231-194-0-1) 204.231.194.0 -
> 204.231.223.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT28 (NET-204-231-236-0-1) 204.231.236.0 -
> 204.231.236.255
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-CDA33E (NET-205-163-62-0-1) 205.163.62.0 -
> 205.163.62.255
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-CDA33F (NET-205-163-63-0-1) 205.163.63.0 -
> 205.163.63.255
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-CDA39F (NET-205-163-144-0-1) 205.163.144.0 -
> 205.163.159.255
> Microsoft Corp FON-34550983681918 (NET-205-240-158-0-1) 205.240.158.0 -
> 205.240.159.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT29 (NET-205-248-10-0-1) 205.248.10.0 -
> 205.248.15.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT30 (NET-205-248-41-0-1) 205.248.41.0 -
> 205.248.43.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT31 (NET-205-248-50-0-1) 205.248.50.0 -
> 205.248.51.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT32 (NET-205-248-61-0-1) 205.248.61.0 -
> 205.248.63.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT34 (NET-205-248-72-0-1) 205.248.72.0 -
> 205.248.72.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT33 (NET-205-248-80-0-1) 205.248.80.0 -
> 205.248.129.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT35 (NET-205-248-212-0-1) 205.248.212.0 -
> 205.248.215.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT36 (NET-205-248-228-0-1) 205.248.228.0 -
> 205.248.228.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT37 (NET-205-248-235-0-1) 205.248.235.0 -
> 205.248.235.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT44 (NET-205-248-243-0-1) 205.248.243.0 -
> 205.248.244.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT58 (NET-206-73-31-0-1) 206.73.31.0 - 206.73.31.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT59 (NET-206-73-67-0-1) 206.73.67.0 - 206.73.67.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT56 (NET-206-73-118-0-1) 206.73.118.0 -
> 206.73.118.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT57 (NET-206-73-203-0-1) 206.73.203.0 -
> 206.73.203.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-6 (NET-206-79-74-32-1) 206.79.74.32 -
> 206.79.74.47
> Microsoft Corp FON-346312755281299 (NET-206-107-34-0-1) 206.107.34.0 -
> 206.107.34.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT61 (NET-206-182-69-0-1) 206.182.69.0 -
> 206.182.69.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT62 (NET-206-182-236-0-1) 206.182.236.0 -
> 206.182.236.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT63 (NET-206-182-240-0-1) 206.182.240.0 -
> 206.182.240.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT64 (NET-206-182-241-0-1) 206.182.241.0 -
> 206.182.241.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT65 (NET-206-182-247-0-1) 206.182.247.0 -
> 206.182.247.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT66 (NET-206-182-251-0-1) 206.182.251.0 -
> 206.182.251.255
> Microsoft Corp UU-207-18-117 (NET-207-18-117-0-1) 207.18.117.0 -
> 207.18.117.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-GLOBAL-NET (NET-207-46-0-0-1) 207.46.0.0 -
> 207.46.255.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-CORP-MSN-BLK (NET-207-68-128-0-1) 207.68.128.0
> - 207.68.207.255
> Microsoft Corp SOCRATIC (NET-207-78-80-0-1) 207.78.80.0 - 207.78.80.255
> Microsoft Corp DAVELADD (NET-207-78-81-0-1) 207.78.81.0 - 207.78.81.255
> Microsoft Corp RSEGAL (NET-207-78-82-0-1) 207.78.82.0 - 207.78.82.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT48 (NET-207-117-3-0-1) 207.117.3.0 - 207.117.3.255
> Microsoft Corp CYBR-LCCLAB (NET-207-158-93-192-1) 207.158.93.192 -
> 207.158.93.223
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT50 (NET-207-209-68-0-1) 207.209.68.0 -
> 207.209.68.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-8-18 (NET-207-240-8-224-1) 207.240.8.224 -
> 207.240.8.239
> Microsoft Corp MSBPN-2 (NET-207-240-123-192-1) 207.240.123.192 -
> 207.240.123.223
> Microsoft Corp SPRINT-D01ACD (NET-208-26-205-0-1) 208.26.205.0 -
> 208.26.205.255
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-208-45-54-8 (NET-208-45-54-8-1) 208.45.54.8 -
> 208.45.54.15
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-208-45-54-16 (NET-208-45-54-16-1) 208.45.54.16 -
> 208.45.54.23
> Microsoft Corp QWEST-208-45-89-248A (NET-208-45-89-248-1) 208.45.89.248
> - 208.45.89.255
> Microsoft Corp CW-208-139-27-B (NET-208-139-27-0-1) 208.139.27.0 -
> 208.139.27.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233608-2 (NET-209-1-15-0-1) 209.1.15.0 - 209.1.15.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-4 (NET-209-1-112-0-1) 209.1.112.0 -
> 209.1.112.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-5 (NET-209-1-113-0-1) 209.1.113.0 -
> 209.1.113.255
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT55 (NET-209-28-213-0-1) 209.28.213.0 -
> 209.28.213.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233050-2 (NET-209-143-238-0-1) 209.143.238.0 -
> 209.143.238.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-14 (NET-209-185-128-0-1) 209.185.128.0 -
> 209.185.131.255
> Microsoft Corp NET-CSAMSI (NET-209-192-213-72-1) 209.192.213.72 -
> 209.192.213.79
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-7 (NET-216-32-168-224-1) 216.32.168.224 -
> 216.32.168.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-8 (NET-216-32-175-224-1) 216.32.175.224 -
> 216.32.175.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-9 (NET-216-32-180-0-1) 216.32.180.0 -
> 216.32.183.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-10 (NET-216-32-240-0-1) 216.32.240.0 -
> 216.32.243.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-16 (NET-216-33-148-0-1) 216.33.148.0 -
> 216.33.151.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-11 (NET-216-33-229-224-1) 216.33.229.224 -
> 216.33.229.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-12 (NET-216-33-236-0-1) 216.33.236.0 -
> 216.33.239.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233053-13 (NET-216-33-240-0-1) 216.33.240.0 -
> 216.33.243.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233608-3 (NET-216-34-51-0-1) 216.34.51.0 -
> 216.34.51.255
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233608-4 (NET-216-34-53-176-1) 216.34.53.176 -
> 216.34.53.191
> Microsoft Corp SAVV-S233608-5 (NET-216-35-8-224-1) 216.35.8.224 -
> 216.35.8.239
> Microsoft Corp MICROSOFTG1-COM (NET-216-72-96-0-1) 216.72.96.0 -
> 216.72.99.255
> Microsoft Corp CUST-86-24614 (NET-216-222-104-224-1) 216.222.104.224 -
> 216.222.104.239
>
>
> Looking at the networks contained therein, that looks like: 939400
> addresses and no /8s.
> The largest block is Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-BBLK (NET-157-54-0-0-1)
> 157.54.0.0 - 157.60.255.255
> which doesn't appear to be bit-aligned, but, looks like:
>
> 157.54.0.0/15
> 157.56.0.0/14
>
> They also have a couple of /16s and a /14. There are a couple of other
> large non-aligned ranges,
> and the rest appear to be smaller blocks.
>
> The block Microsoft Corp MICROSOFT-IPV6-BLK (NET6-2001-4898-1)
> 2001:4898:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 -
> 2001:4898:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF
> is specifically not included in the calculations above, but, is a /32 of
> IPv6 space.
>
> HP has a large number of Org IDs:
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-5)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-6)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-1)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-13)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-16)
> HEWLETT PACKARD (HEWLET-21)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-24)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-27)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-28)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLET-29)
> hewlett packard (HEWLET-31)
> HEWLETT PACKARD (HEWLET-33)
> HEWLETT PACKARD (HEWLE-10)
> Hewlett Packard (HEWLE-16)
> HEWLETT PACKARD - BRS (HPB-6)
> Hewlett Packard / COMPAQ (HEWLE-25)
> Hewlett Packard Co. (HEWLET-3)
> Hewlett Packard Company (HEWLET-25)
> HEWLETT PACKARD COMPANY (HEWLE-13)
> HEWLETT PACKARD COMPANY (HEWLE-15)
> Hewlett Packard OKI Printed Circuit (HPOPC)
> HEWLETT PACKARD-VERIFONE (HEWLET-32)
> Hewlett packard/Danzas AEI (HPA-6)
> Hewlett Packard Company (AI2-ORG-ARIN) ipaddr at hp.com +1-800-524-7638
>
> Which makes it a bit more challenging to indentify all of their space.
>
> However, looking through all of the blocks which are returned from whois
> -h whois.arin.net 'hewlett',
> I do not see any /8s listed.
>
> Trying to look at Apple is even worse...
>
> Apple Computer (APPLEC-13)
> Apple Computer (APPLEC-16)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-6)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-7)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-152)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-12)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-43)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-46)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-47)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-48)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-49)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-50)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-51)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-56)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-57)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-59)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-60)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-69)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-62)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-71)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-72)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-73)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-74)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-75)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-76)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-77)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-78)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-79)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-83)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-84)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-80)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-81)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-82)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-85)
> APPLE COMPUTER (APPLE-146)
> Apple Computer, Inc (APPLEC-14)
> Apple Computer, Inc. (APPLEC-3)
> Apple Computer, Inc. (APPLEC-2)
> Apple Computer, Inc. (APPLEC-4)
>
>
> However, looking at the blocks returned by whois -h whois.arin.net 'apple',
> I also do not see a single /8 listed.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2009, at 6:01 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure that Microsoft used to have a class A and I'm pretty
>> sure that disappeared a few years ago.
>>
>> Apple and HP may be in that same boat. They may have a class B now
>> because they gave up a class A a few years ago, and they got the B
>> under a secret agreement with ARIN
>>
>> This is just sheer speculation. Since I don't work for ARIN and don't
>> know if it's true or not, I'm free to speculate. The people who
>> actually know, well their hands are a bit more tied.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> Vaughn Thurman - Swift Systems wrote:
>>> So what does ARIN have to lose... Are these orgs cooperating now?
>>> Sent from my handheld
>>> On Jul 22, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2009, at 6:17 AM, <michael.dillon at bt.com>
>>>> <michael.dillon at bt.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> When Apple or HP got their space in the late 1980's there was
>>>>>> no fee as part of the "contract".
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a principle of common law that if there is no money (or
>>>>> equivalent) paid then there is no legal contract. Has this changed in
>>>>> the USA?
>>>>>
>>>> It is a principle of common law that a contract involves an exchange
>>>> of value. (labor, things, etc. == value)
>>>>
>>>> It is a principle of common law that without a contract, you cannot
>>>> expect
>>>> someone to pay a bill for a service you did not tell them you were
>>>> going
>>>> to charge them for, whether or not they asked for said service and
>>>> whether
>>>> or not you performed said service.
>>>>
>>>> The above use of the term "contract" probably is in quotations because,
>>>> it specifically is not a contract in the legal meaning of the word,
>>>> but, more
>>>> the "contract" as a term of art for any form of agreement between
>>>> two or
>>>> more parties.
>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to see all these entities billed retroactively back to the
>>>>> beginning of ARIN. If they complain, then we could negotiate it
>>>>> down to
>>>>> just the past year if they sign an RSA.
>>>>>
>>>> This would be an absurd waste of time and money on the part of ARIN in
>>>> my humble opinion. I think it would also go a long way towards reducing
>>>> the willingness to work with ARIN on the parts of several
>>>> organizations with
>>>> legacy space.
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
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