[arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

Sat Feb 28 05:40:52 EST 2009

Uh, why do you believe that IPv6 makes any difference to this?

IPv6 is not allocated on national boundaries, and, multinational
organizations are not at all unlikely to move allocations around
to different countries.

I don't think that this is in any way improved or solved in IPv6.

IPv6 solves several other problems, but, IP != geography and the
sooner people realize that, the better things will be.

Owen

On Feb 27, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Michael DeMan (OA) wrote:

> I think the essence of the problem should be fixed with ipv6, correct?
>
> We all realize it will take a good 30-50 years to completely wind down
> ipv4, and what we are talking about in those sorts of time frames are
> entire generations of human beings.
>
>
> I'm not offering any answers, but am curious to ensure that folks are
> keeping these sorts of time frames in mind when they determine policy.
>
> - Mike
>
>
> Smales, Robert wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Here in the UK I get this kind of issue every couple of months,  
>> either because Google is giving customers in the UK google.de or  
>> google.fr or because people can't access the BBC's web TV because  
>> the BBC thinks they are outside the UK. I hate geolocation  
>> providers with a passion because there is no way in principle that  
>> they can do what they say they can do, and in practice the results  
>> they give are wildly inaccurate.
>>
>> I can understand why the BBC needs to do this (because copyright  
>> works with national boundaries) but I don't think it is reasonable  
>> for Google to give Marcel or Fritz google.fr or google.de when they  
>> typed www.google.com
>>
>> Robert
>> Robert Smales
>> IP Provide Engineer
>> Cable&Wireless Europe, Asia & US
>> www.cw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf Of Brad Anouar
>>> Sent: 27 February 2009 03:28
>>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the  
>>> hand" ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone experienced any issues relating to this? We are
>>> using a little subnet in the 63.0.0.0/8 IP space, but so far
>>> so good. I will have to research this online to find out if
>>> there are any proactive measures worth taking.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Scott Berkman
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:02 PM
>>> To: 'Kelvin Williams'; arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the  
>>> hand" ?
>>>
>>> My best guess is this is exactly what they were trying to
>>> avoid.  I bet it
>>> they have been getting inundated themselves with calls/emails
>>> about these
>>> issues, but can't actually fix it since they don't control
>>> their services.
>>>
>>> I'd do something similar if my customers were flooding us
>>> about an issue
>>> that wasn't our fault and we couldn't fix on our own.
>>>
>>> Not saying they couldn't have had a better, more helpful
>>> email, but I get
>>> why they sent it.
>>>
>>> 	-Scott
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Kelvin Williams
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:55 PM
>>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the  
>>> hand" ?
>>>
>>> I would have to concur.  As a current holder of a block in
>>> the affected
>>> ranges our helpdesk has been inundated with complaint calls from our
>>> end-users.  For example, Google redirects our users with IPs in the
>>> affected
>>> ranges to their German version, etc.
>>>
>>> While we haven't experienced any true routing issues, we have  
>>> tried to
>>> contact some of the content providers and companies like Google to  
>>> no
>>> avail.
>>>
>>>
>>> At the bare minimum, ARIN could have provided to block
>>> holders via the new
>>> superduper secure website contact numbers or e-mail addresses to the
>>> organizations which we know are causing these types of
>>> issues.  We have
>>> all
>>> but abandoned any hopes of resolving the issue and merely crossed  
>>> our
>>> fingers in hopes that these content and geo-location providers would
>>> re-query ARIN's WHOIS at some time in the immediate future.
>>>
>>> I can't speak for all, but at our company, we don't have
>>> anyone available
>>> to
>>> research for contacts, fill out web-forms-to-nowhere, or
>>> leave voicemails
>>> all day in mailboxes that don't get checked.
>>>
>>> kw
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Sean Cheesman
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:40 PM
>>> To: Scott Leibrand; Jo Rhett
>>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the  
>>> hand" ?
>>>
>>> I disagree that this was a reasonable statement from ARIN.
>>> They listed no
>>> examples of what "content providers" are causing problems,
>>> and only leave
>>> it
>>> up to us to determine if there is a problem, and then try to
>>> resolve it on
>>> our own.  Yes, it may now be easier to troubleshoot a problem
>>> because now
>>> I
>>> may say "hey, didn't I get an email from ARIN a while back
>>> warning me of a
>>> problem?" but that doesn't really help me be proactive about
>>> the issue.
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:36 PM
>>> To: Jo Rhett
>>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the  
>>> hand" ?
>>>
>>> Jo,
>>>
>>> I was not involved in any discussions around that notice, but
>>> when I got
>>> it, I interpreted it as saying, "We're aware of a problem, and  
>>> believe
>>> it may affect a lot of you.  We can't fix it for you, but here's  
>>> what
>>> you need to know to get it fixed if you're affected."
>>>
>>> Quite reasonable, IMO.
>>>
>>> -Scott
>>>
>>> Jo Rhett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can someone explain to me why ARIN spammed all of our ARIN contacts
>>>> (including (A)buse contacts!) with a notice that says "talk to the
>>>> hand" ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems,  
>>>>> you
>>>>> are
>>>>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party
>>>>>
>>> information software
>>>
>>>>> vendors
>>>>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If ARIN can not and will not do anything to contact these
>>>>
>>> parties and
>>>
>>>> get it resolved, why does it send a notice telling us with
>>>>
>>> this?  Next
>>>
>>>> week will we see a notice that ARIN won't be involved in saving
>>>> starving children in Africa?  I imagine that ARIN will be very busy
>>>> informing us of every thing it does not plan to work on ... is this
>>>> helpful?  Honestly?
>>>>
>>>> Entire message below:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Per a request from an ARIN customer, ARIN is sending you
>>>>>
>>> this letter
>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>> a courtesy notification of problems some registrants of ARIN- 
>>>>> issued
>>>>> IPv4
>>>>> addresses have experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some geolocation and content providers are misidentifying
>>>>>
>>> ARIN-issued
>>>
>>>>> address space as being outside the ARIN region. Common problems
>>>>> experienced
>>>>> by ARIN registrants over the last two years include:
>>>>>
>>>>> - search engines misidentifying the addresses as being in South
>>>>> America;
>>>>> - content caching providers sending traffic via nodes in South
>>>>> America; and
>>>>> - e-commerce transactions failing or being delaying due to fraud
>>>>> prevention
>>>>> procedures being triggered when the payment processing system
>>>>> believes the
>>>>> transaction is originating in South America.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registrants have experienced these problems both with new IANA-
>>>>> issued /8s
>>>>> (like 173.0.0.0/8 and 174.0.0.0/8) and with /8s which ARIN has
>>>>> issued and
>>>>> re-issued over many years (like 63.0.0.0/8).
>>>>>
>>>>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems,  
>>>>> you
>>>>> are
>>>>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party
>>>>>
>>> information software
>>>
>>>>> vendors
>>>>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Leslie Nobile
>>>>> Director, Registration Services
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Discuss
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>>>
>>
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>>
>>
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