[arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

Thu Feb 26 22:29:09 EST 2009

Don't forget, every company in a position to fix this *did* get the same 
e-mail you did.  I suspect they're quite aware of the issue now (if they 
weren't before), and working to get it fixed.

-Scott

Kelvin Williams wrote:
> Please don't take the following as me being a smarta** but this is ARIN we are talking about. Each of these service providers more than likely have a direct allocation, and therefore ARIN has quality contact information for them. 
>
> When Joe the IP Engineer calls Google he doesn't get anything but an IVR that instructs him to submit an email or web form. Which is ignored. We've done this. 
>
> However if Google's (and, I apologize in advance for using them in my example) designated ARIN contact receives a notice from ARIN, I'm willing to bet he or she is more apt to respond. 
>
> So why does David have to fight Goliath's battle?
>
> Kw
>
>
> Kelvin Williams
> Altus Communications Group, Inc.
> Office Direct: 678.369.5968
> Office Main: 678.369.5970
> Fax: 866.895.8557
> Mobile: 678.852.4173
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Scott Berkman" <scott.berkman at reignmaker.net>
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:02:03 
> To: 'Kelvin Williams'<kwilliams at altuscgi.com>; <arin-discuss at arin.net>
> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>
>
> My best guess is this is exactly what they were trying to avoid.  I bet it
> they have been getting inundated themselves with calls/emails about these
> issues, but can't actually fix it since they don't control their services.
>
> I'd do something similar if my customers were flooding us about an issue
> that wasn't our fault and we couldn't fix on our own.
>
> Not saying they couldn't have had a better, more helpful email, but I get
> why they sent it.
>
> 	-Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of Kelvin Williams
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:55 PM
> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>
> I would have to concur.  As a current holder of a block in the affected
> ranges our helpdesk has been inundated with complaint calls from our
> end-users.  For example, Google redirects our users with IPs in the
> affected
> ranges to their German version, etc.  
>
> While we haven't experienced any true routing issues, we have tried to
> contact some of the content providers and companies like Google to no
> avail.
>
>
> At the bare minimum, ARIN could have provided to block holders via the new
> superduper secure website contact numbers or e-mail addresses to the
> organizations which we know are causing these types of issues.  We have
> all
> but abandoned any hopes of resolving the issue and merely crossed our
> fingers in hopes that these content and geo-location providers would
> re-query ARIN's WHOIS at some time in the immediate future.  
>
> I can't speak for all, but at our company, we don't have anyone available
> to
> research for contacts, fill out web-forms-to-nowhere, or leave voicemails
> all day in mailboxes that don't get checked.
>
> kw
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of Sean Cheesman
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:40 PM
> To: Scott Leibrand; Jo Rhett
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>
> I disagree that this was a reasonable statement from ARIN.  They listed no
> examples of what "content providers" are causing problems, and only leave
> it
> up to us to determine if there is a problem, and then try to resolve it on
> our own.  Yes, it may now be easier to troubleshoot a problem because now
> I
> may say "hey, didn't I get an email from ARIN a while back warning me of a
> problem?" but that doesn't really help me be proactive about the issue.
>
> Sean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:36 PM
> To: Jo Rhett
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>
> Jo,
>
> I was not involved in any discussions around that notice, but when I got
> it, I interpreted it as saying, "We're aware of a problem, and believe
> it may affect a lot of you.  We can't fix it for you, but here's what
> you need to know to get it fixed if you're affected."
>
> Quite reasonable, IMO.
>
> -Scott
>
> Jo Rhett wrote:
>   
>> Can someone explain to me why ARIN spammed all of our ARIN contacts
>> (including (A)buse contacts!) with a notice that says "talk to the
>> hand" ?
>>
>>
>>     
>>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you
>>> are
>>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party information software
>>> vendors
>>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>>
>>>       
>> If ARIN can not and will not do anything to contact these parties and
>> get it resolved, why does it send a notice telling us with this?  Next
>> week will we see a notice that ARIN won't be involved in saving
>> starving children in Africa?  I imagine that ARIN will be very busy
>> informing us of every thing it does not plan to work on ... is this
>> helpful?  Honestly?
>>
>> Entire message below:
>>
>>     
>>> Per a request from an ARIN customer, ARIN is sending you this letter
>>> as
>>> a courtesy notification of problems some registrants of ARIN-issued
>>> IPv4
>>> addresses have experienced.
>>>
>>> Some geolocation and content providers are misidentifying ARIN-issued
>>> address space as being outside the ARIN region. Common problems
>>> experienced
>>> by ARIN registrants over the last two years include:
>>>
>>> - search engines misidentifying the addresses as being in South
>>> America;
>>> - content caching providers sending traffic via nodes in South
>>> America; and
>>> - e-commerce transactions failing or being delaying due to fraud
>>> prevention
>>> procedures being triggered when the payment processing system
>>> believes the
>>> transaction is originating in South America.
>>>
>>> Registrants have experienced these problems both with new IANA-
>>> issued /8s
>>> (like 173.0.0.0/8 and 174.0.0.0/8) and with /8s which ARIN has
>>> issued and
>>> re-issued over many years (like 63.0.0.0/8).
>>>
>>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you
>>> are
>>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party information software
>>> vendors
>>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Leslie Nobile
>>> Director, Registration Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>
>>>       
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