[arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

Thu Feb 26 22:15:29 EST 2009

Please don't take the following as me being a smarta** but this is ARIN we are talking about. Each of these service providers more than likely have a direct allocation, and therefore ARIN has quality contact information for them. 

When Joe the IP Engineer calls Google he doesn't get anything but an IVR that instructs him to submit an email or web form. Which is ignored. We've done this. 

However if Google's (and, I apologize in advance for using them in my example) designated ARIN contact receives a notice from ARIN, I'm willing to bet he or she is more apt to respond. 

So why does David have to fight Goliath's battle?

Kw

Kelvin Williams
Altus Communications Group, Inc.
Office Direct: 678.369.5968
Office Main: 678.369.5970
Fax: 866.895.8557
Mobile: 678.852.4173

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed

-----Original Message-----
From: "Scott Berkman" <scott.berkman at reignmaker.net>

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:02:03 
To: 'Kelvin Williams'<kwilliams at altuscgi.com>; <arin-discuss at arin.net>
Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

My best guess is this is exactly what they were trying to avoid.  I bet it
they have been getting inundated themselves with calls/emails about these
issues, but can't actually fix it since they don't control their services.

I'd do something similar if my customers were flooding us about an issue
that wasn't our fault and we couldn't fix on our own.

Not saying they couldn't have had a better, more helpful email, but I get
why they sent it.

	-Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Kelvin Williams
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:55 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

I would have to concur.  As a current holder of a block in the affected
ranges our helpdesk has been inundated with complaint calls from our
end-users.  For example, Google redirects our users with IPs in the
affected
ranges to their German version, etc.  

While we haven't experienced any true routing issues, we have tried to
contact some of the content providers and companies like Google to no
avail.

At the bare minimum, ARIN could have provided to block holders via the new
superduper secure website contact numbers or e-mail addresses to the
organizations which we know are causing these types of issues.  We have
all
but abandoned any hopes of resolving the issue and merely crossed our
fingers in hopes that these content and geo-location providers would
re-query ARIN's WHOIS at some time in the immediate future.  

I can't speak for all, but at our company, we don't have anyone available
to
research for contacts, fill out web-forms-to-nowhere, or leave voicemails
all day in mailboxes that don't get checked.

kw

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Sean Cheesman
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:40 PM
To: Scott Leibrand; Jo Rhett
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

I disagree that this was a reasonable statement from ARIN.  They listed no
examples of what "content providers" are causing problems, and only leave
it
up to us to determine if there is a problem, and then try to resolve it on
our own.  Yes, it may now be easier to troubleshoot a problem because now
I
may say "hey, didn't I get an email from ARIN a while back warning me of a
problem?" but that doesn't really help me be proactive about the issue.

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:36 PM
To: Jo Rhett
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

Jo,

I was not involved in any discussions around that notice, but when I got
it, I interpreted it as saying, "We're aware of a problem, and believe
it may affect a lot of you.  We can't fix it for you, but here's what
you need to know to get it fixed if you're affected."

Quite reasonable, IMO.

-Scott

Jo Rhett wrote:
> Can someone explain to me why ARIN spammed all of our ARIN contacts
> (including (A)buse contacts!) with a notice that says "talk to the
> hand" ?
>
>
>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you
>> are
>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party information software
>> vendors
>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>
>
> If ARIN can not and will not do anything to contact these parties and
> get it resolved, why does it send a notice telling us with this?  Next
> week will we see a notice that ARIN won't be involved in saving
> starving children in Africa?  I imagine that ARIN will be very busy
> informing us of every thing it does not plan to work on ... is this
> helpful?  Honestly?
>
> Entire message below:
>
>> Per a request from an ARIN customer, ARIN is sending you this letter
>> as
>> a courtesy notification of problems some registrants of ARIN-issued
>> IPv4
>> addresses have experienced.
>>
>> Some geolocation and content providers are misidentifying ARIN-issued
>> address space as being outside the ARIN region. Common problems
>> experienced
>> by ARIN registrants over the last two years include:
>>
>> - search engines misidentifying the addresses as being in South
>> America;
>> - content caching providers sending traffic via nodes in South
>> America; and
>> - e-commerce transactions failing or being delaying due to fraud
>> prevention
>> procedures being triggered when the payment processing system
>> believes the
>> transaction is originating in South America.
>>
>> Registrants have experienced these problems both with new IANA-
>> issued /8s
>> (like 173.0.0.0/8 and 174.0.0.0/8) and with /8s which ARIN has
>> issued and
>> re-issued over many years (like 63.0.0.0/8).
>>
>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you
>> are
>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party information software
>> vendors
>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Leslie Nobile
>> Director, Registration Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>
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