[arin-discuss] Team Cymru

[Edward Lewis]

At 15:40 +0000 3/28/08, Paul Vixie wrote:
>>  ... Just pointing out that Team Cymru exist and continue to provide services
>>  related to IP addresses that IANA and the RIRs do not provide, even though
>>  they could.
>
>can you provide one or more specific examples, and show in at least one case
>how ARIN might be able to do a better job?  to the best of my knowledge, cymru
>is staffed by "the" experts in their field, and their services are free.  but
>if there's some value ARIN can add, then, that ought to be investigated.

IMHO, this entire conversation is purely hypothetical, but to answer 
anyway and in the spirit of hypothetical, where an organization like 
ARIN has expertise is in the open discussion space.  Meaning that 
ARIN could bring to the table a position that is more openly 
representative of a wider base of constituents.

That's not to say that ARIN could out muscle Team Cymru on it's turf. 
That *is* to say that if there was ever information released that 
consisted of a judgement (not straight calculation) of the raw data, 
it's better to come from an organization which expends energy to 
disclose the judgement process.

>nope, nothing like that.  ARIN thinks it ain't broke, so, ARIN doesn't fix it.

ARIN functions as a representative of the operational 
community/industry - or a subset of such.  ARIN isn't out to change 
the world, it fills the voids that industry needs to have filled.

>
>>  They've changed domains, revamped their website, added a nice graphical
>>  dashboard, etc. Well worth an explore to see if there are any services there
>>  that your company can make use of.
>
>there's a potentially disturbing implication here, which is that the services
>you think the RIR's could provide, that you think cymru is providing now, are
>not free from cymru.  if you can substantiate that, then there may in fact be
>work for ARIN here, in that if there's something ARIN can do as a 
>simple public
>benefit, that ARIN's members would otherwise have to pay commercial rates for,
>then the "value add" i mentioned earlier above would be "don't have to pay",
>and if so, then that's *definitely* something that ought to be investigated.
>if on the other hand it's not "simple" then "don't have to pay" would be well
>balanced and exceeded by "it's really quite difficult to provide 
>that service."

I kept the old quote because I didn't interpret it the same way as 
what Paul added.  The old quote didn't imply (to me) that Team Cmyru 
was "going pro" and
thus leaving a void for ARIN.

But why is the implication "disturbing?"

>(this follows from my personal belief that money ought to follow uniqueness,
>i.e., that a supplier's cashflow and equity growth should come from being the
>only, or the best, supplier of a particular service, and not from inertia or
>from unnecessary exclusivity on public goods or public databases.  this is a
>personal position, not an ARIN BoT position, nor an ARIN organizational
>principle.)

Well, I'm going to argue with a "personal belief" knowing that one 
should not get into a flame war over it.  My view, forged a long time 
ago, is that money follows the mundane.  (I didn't say "ought to".) 
More money is spent on low end, commodity deliveries than on turn 
key, customized products and services.  For the engineer I was 
talking with about this years ago, who demanded to be paid more for 
his crafted work, my advice was "I'd rather pay more for someone that 
consistently delivered what I wanted" than to someone that also 
derived pleasure from the work.

If Team Cymru enjoys "this" role, isn't that enough of a reward? ;) 
To quote James McMurtry "If you liked what you're doin', it wouldn't 
be work."

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Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

Never confuse activity with progress.  Activity pays more.