[arin-discuss] [ppml] Counsel statement on Legacy assignments?

[Dean Anderson]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> >2. ARIN entered into a bargain with the government that requires ARIN to
> >provide services to Legacy's for free, in return for opportunities on
> >future assignments and other privileges.
>
> No Dean.  The very extent of what this alleged "bargin" allegedly covers is
> what is under dispute.  

I agree that the terms of the bargain are being disputed. But that
implies there is a bargain to dispute, doesn't it?

> You have not offered up proof needed to establish this claim, and I
> frankly do not think you can because I don't think it exists.

Legacy's have 20+ years of performance to establish their claims. Even
if there were no written documents, that's proof enough to establish the
claim; If there are no documents, and if the documents are actually
vague and unspecific, then past performance defines the undefined terms.

Explain to the court why Legacy's weren't charged fees, or subjected to
RSA rules for 20+ years, or even during the 11 years of ARIN existance?

But there are certainly written documents. There is RFC 1261 which
describes the transfer from SRI to Network Solutions. There are
references to a contract that Network Solutions had to perform the
registry service. (I don't have this contract in hand, but I'm sure it
can be obtained.)  Likewise, there was correspondence and probably
written contracts that ARIN entered into in its formation. I don't have
these contracts in hand either, but I've no doubt they can be obtained.  
It would be nice if ARIN put these documents and correspondence on its
web site, like ICANN does.

But ARIN hasn't trotted them out to prove its case, either, so I think
we can assume for the moment that they are either vague or non-existant,
or they support my view of the bargain.

> Your trying to convince me and everyone that this "bargain" exists by
> saying it exists, over and over again.

I'm amazed that you think that any kind of serious, long term
relationship isn't defined by an agreement whose terms can be determined
by a court.  I'm amazed that you would think there is no correspondence
that can be used to determine the intent of the agreement, even if it
isn't written down.  I can only guess that is due to a lack of
legal/management experience.

> This is a matter of faith, not of facts.  

Hundreds of years of legal history favor my interpretation of the means
of resolving terms of vague or implied agreements, not yours.

> >3. Legacy's cannot be forced to give up these rights, by ARIN or even
> >by the government.  The government can't break the agreement, either,
> >and can't pass an ex-post-facto law modifying the agreement
> >unilaterally.
> 
> Wrong again.  The US government can take away ANY right in the US not
> explicitly guarenteed in the US Constituion, and they can redefine
> rights that are guarenteed so narrowly as to be almost useless.

People sue the government and compel performance every day.  But your
view is really scary. You live in a truly terrifying world.  
Fortunately, it has no relation to the real world.

> >4. Legacy's should act as a group to protect these rights.  They
> >should work together to oppose ARIN legal claims that there are no
> >rules or that Legacy have no legal rights, and to oppose in Court
> >efforts to deprive Legacy's of these rights.  A Legacy Registry
> >ensures that we only have to do this once and won't repeat it every
> >six months.
> 
> The very essence of this "unencumbered value" you attribute to Legacy
> IPv4 numbers is the fact that they HAVE NO RULES.

Legacy's aren't encumbered by the _RSA_ rules. The RSA rules are what
gives ARIN all the rights. Being free of the RSA isn't anarchy. Anarchy
is having no government and no body of law to resolve civil disputes. We
don't have anarchy; instead we have government and laws.

> Now you are telling the Legacy holders to band together and pay money
> - give up what is unique, the anarchy and cost-freeness of legacy
> assignments - to protect the anarchy and cost-freeness of legacy
> assignments.

I'm not asking any Legacy to give up any rights, so you seem to
misunderstand or misrepresent my position.  I'm telling them to form
(pay into)  a legal defense fund to fight ARIN. That doesn't cause them
to give up rights.

Rest of rant ignored.

		--Dean

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