[ARIN-consult] [arin-announce] Reminder: Consultation on Registration ServicesAgreement - MORE

Mike Burns mike at iptrading.com
Mon Aug 17 17:16:09 EDT 2015

Hi Owen,


Section 7 is not about future justifications or “further ARIN services”. 

It is strictly about renouncing property rights and should refer to the rights to the Included Resources, which is what the agreement covers.


Why must the holder sign away all property rights to all resources now and in the future?

What does that have to do with further ARIN services?


The rest of the document is very clear on the services issue.








From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 4:59 PM
To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>; arin-consult at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] [arin-announce] Reminder: Consultation on Registration ServicesAgreement - MORE


I oppose Mike’s proposed modifications.


I think it is perfectly reasonable to use the desire for further ARIN services as a point for making it clear that

the existing resources are also part of that process.


If you consider yourself reasonable and wish to disagree, then you are reasonably able to do without more

resources from this community.




On Aug 17, 2015, at 13:55 , Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com> > wrote:


Hi John,


I suggest changing the language in the proposed RSA section 7.

Delete sections (b) and (c) and rename section (d) as section (b).

Change “accordance with Policy” to “accordance with the Policies” to match the language of other sections.


Section 7 would then read:


Holder acknowledges and agrees that: (a) the Included Number Resources are not property (real, personal,

or intellectual) of Holder; and (b) Holder will transfer or receive Included Number Resources in accordance with the Policies.











From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at arin.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 4:37 PM
To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com> >
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net> 
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] [arin-announce] Reminder: Consultation on Registration ServicesAgreement - MORE


On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:53 AM, Mike Burns < <mailto:mike at iptrading.com> mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

   As noted, the proposed agreement includes changes to more specifically qualify two of 

   the four statements in section 7 to apply to the particular resources (“Included number



   From your message, I would surmise that these changes to 7(a) and 7(d), in and of 

   themselves, are not sufficient in your view to address the issue?



The result of the changes is a Trojan Horse for any legacy holder, IMO.

The RSA comes in as if it were covering only specific access, and only upon deeper inspection does the signer realize he has given up all property rights, now and in the future, of all resources.

I ask again, what is the legal purpose for the generality of those clauses (7b and 7c) in the context of an agreement covering a specific an defined set of number resources?

And by context, I mean immediate literal context, where these clauses are bracketed by similar clauses which are not so general?


Mike - 


The language in section 7 reflects ARIN’s existing RSA and LRSA agreements; the purpose

of the consultation is to gather feedback on a set of changes which have been suggested by

the community in the past and which ARIN is considering moving forward with.


If you support ARIN moving to the new agreements (or not), it would helpful to make your

views known.  If there are additional changes that you feel are necessary, please provide

some suggested language for those changes.





John Curran

President and CEO





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