[ARIN-consult] discounting registration fees for IPv6 assignments
Jesse D. Geddis
jesse at la-broadband.com
Sun Oct 28 22:08:31 EDT 2012
On 10/28/12 6:26 PM, "Jimmy Hess" <mysidia at gmail.com> wrote:
> There may have been an experiment tried for some number of years, but
> there were no conclusive results.
An absence of data should be cause to collect that data rather than take a
> IP resources are _not_ assets that ARIN sells to applicants. ARIN
> does not charge a fee for a certain number of IP address seats, so
> there is nothing the least bit wrong that larger allocations have a
> lower average cost per IP.
This isn't true at all in practice. ARIN DOES charge a charge a fee for a
certain number of IP's. As Willian Herrin pointed out on the 25th ARIN
charges a smaller organization 100x *more* per IP more than it would
charge say an AT&T. This doesn't sit well with me at all.
> Now they do have these allocation-size based pricing, which are
> obviously meant to distribute ARIN costs based on the relative sizes
> of networks.
I don't believe that's what the cost is rooted in at all. Perhaps John
could shed some light as to how these numbers have been arrived at. I
think there are probably two tangibles you can peg the dollar amount to
and I don't believe the current costs are rooted in either.
1. The resources consumed (that's clearly not the case here)
2. The management cost of the consumed resources (I don't believe they are
pegged to this either even remotely)
A way to find this out is to compare customers. In 2012 LA Broadband
generated a total of 2 ARIN tickets. How much did that cost ARIN? How many
tickets, on average, did Orgs with over say 5 million IP's create? How
much time did they take to resolve? What is the dollar amount associated
with maintaining those Orgs vs my 2 tickets? Did my org really cost 100x
more per IP to maintain? My fee last year was $2,250. Did two tickets cost
> But it's not reasonable to say that the region's most massive IP
> networks with the /12s should pay almost all ARIN's costs, via
> per-IP pricing.
This statement lacks foundation
> That makes ARIN too reliant on a small number of large organizations
> for its survival, which creates extra risks, those organizations
> might object, and just collude and refuse to pay, it makes entry
> costs too low, and eventually means that smaller orgs are deprived
> of meaningful participation.
I don't buy this kind of hyperbole for a second. ARIN already lacks
enforcement authority, for the most part, yet things have still gone
relatively smoothly. ARIN isn't stopping me from advertising blocks that
aren't assigned to LA Broadband via BGP. My upstream providers are. So we
could equally all collude to completely ignore ARIN's allocations and
conspire with our upstream provider but you don't see that happening on a
large scale (or on any that I'm aware of). By the same token, using this
middle man scheme gives super large carriers way too much control over end
users (whom are the ultimate and majority destination of these IP's). I
would *guess* probably 20-30 companies control over 80% of the IPv4
> ISPs and End users at not the same. ISPs are allocated resources
> to reassign to end users connected to them; a distinction is
Jimmy, thanks for bringing this up as I've been wanting to but wasn't sure
what can of worms it would open up. Just because something *is* doesn't
mean it *should be*. Personally, I am not sure I buy the whole delegation
scheme. I haven't been able to think of a compelling reason to maintain
that middle layer between ARIN and the end user. If ARIN truly cared about
that buffer there then why would ARIN be offering "End User Allocations"
at all? If ARIN's point in doing this is to decrease workload than either
1. ARIN should do away with End User Allocations altogether or 2. do away
with the "middle men". I think given the appropriate cost structure the
former could be achieved to pay for the resources required to handle the
additional tickets and billing. I think if I were to take a frank look at
how well carriers have been at doing the bulk of the management of
allocations to end users I would not paint a very kind picture.
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