[arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers

[John Santos]

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net 
> > [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Kargel
> > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> > To: ARIN PPML
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Maimon [mailto:jmaimon at chl.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:18 PM
> > > To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> > > Cc: 'Leo Vegoda'; Kevin Kargel; 'ARIN PPML'
> > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Alternative to arbitrary transfers
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > I don't see these alternatives in any way as creating a transfer 
> > > > market - yet I see them as being able to generate reusable IPv4.
> > > > I would certainly like to have ARIN give them a try and 
> > prove they 
> > > > DON'T work before embarking on a transfer program.
> > > 
> > > The downside is that ARIN becomes even more the bad guy.
> > > 
> > > A transfer system could avoid all that.
> > > 
> > > Doesnt mean I dont personally think all your ideas are 
> > inevitable in 
> > > one shape or another.
> > 
> > OK, brainstorming more here..  
> > 
> > How about if:
> > 
> > 1. IP holder "A" decides it wants to relinquish some IP's and 
> > would like some remuneration..
> 
> Right here is the problem.
> 
> Holder A has his IP numbers purely due to his requesting the
> numbers on the basis of need.  In other words, the numbers were
> never "his" to give.  He's "renting" the use of them, just like
> you would rent a car.  We all would like renumeration for returning
> our rental cars, but that's not what we agreed to when we rented
> the car.
> 
> Further, the org does
> not have the power to determine that he can continue to use the
> numbers - only ARIN does.  If ARIN decides for whatever reason -
> maybe they got tipped off by a signed deposition from a former
> employee of Holder A that the original basis of obtaining the
> numbers was a lie - then ARIN should have the authority to

It wasn't necessarily a lie.  It could have been completely
legit at the time.  May A is cutting back and has closed a bunch
of facilities.  Maybe A has acquired X, Y and Z and has renumbered
or consolidated so it only needs one or two of the original 4.
Maybe A is using RFC1988 or IPv6 internally and no longer needs
all its original allocation.

> pull the numbering.  By giving IP Holder A the
> power to determine that it can relinquish IP allocations on
> any other basis than what they were originally obtained on - ie:
> need - your creating a very slipperly slope that is just
> encouraging lawsuits that would pry away at more of ARIN's
> authority.
> 
> Even the credit from ARIN is a slippery slope and personally I
> don't like it - but I'm willing to suggest it as a bone to the
> pro-transfer people.
> 
> Ted

-- 
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539