[arin-discuss] [arin-ppml] IPv6 as justification for IPv4?
Tim St. Pierre
tim at communicatefreely.net
Mon Apr 15 16:34:07 EDT 2013
Hi Heather,
I asked the other upstream about that. Their answer was that they had
used up all their allocations, but they hadn't gotten around to SWIP'ing
everything so they could ask for another block. I'm not sure that is a
good reason, but that's what I was told. I think with most providers
now, they wait to give out every last bit of address space before they
get more, and it's less common to have whole /24s not used. That could
in part be the need to plan for 3 months predicted need. If you aren't
growing in leaps and bounds, it may be hard to show how you are going to
use a /22 or a /21 in three months
-Tim
On 13-04-15 04:18 PM, Heather Schiller wrote:
> The second upstream that says they can't give more than a /28 either
> -- did they give an explanation? It sounds like you qualify for
> space.. does the second provider also not have space to allocate? The
> free pool isn't out yet.. the problems at the first provider that was
> just bought out aside -- your other provider should still be able to
> get address space from ARIN and allocate to you. The
> rules/requirements haven't really changed -- just the window of time
> they can get space for has changed.
>
> That aside, I'm in favor of the idea of allocating/justifying PI v4
> space to folks with a v6 deployment. I'd like to hear more about how
> common a problem this is.
>
> --Heather
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Scott Leibrand
> <scottleibrand at gmail.com <mailto:scottleibrand at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> Thanks for bringing this up. It sounds like a real issue, which
> could use some policy work. Cross-posting to PPML, where such
> policy discussions occur.
>
> Scott
>
> On Apr 15, 2013, at 7:43 AM, "Tim St. Pierre"
> <tim at communicatefreely.net <mailto:tim at communicatefreely.net>> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > We are a new ISP, and we have had some interesting dilemma's getting
> > started. I'm curious to know if this is something that has affected
> > others, or if I'm just in a strange situation.
> >
> > We are building out an access network to reach business
> customers in a
> > small town. We will probably never be very big, but we like are
> town
> > and are hoping to eventually extend our reach to most business
> in town.
> > When we started, we requested a /32 IPv6 from ARIN. We had to
> explain
> > what we were doing, and our coverage area, etc. This seems
> reasonable
> > and all, and eventually we got our /32. At this point, all we
> had was a
> > /28 IPv4 SWIP'd from an upstream, so our fees jumped from $0 to
> $1800
> > for the year.
> >
> > Now we have a running network, with real customers, and we need IPv4
> > allocations, since running IPv6 only for retail Internet is a bit
> > problematic. We tried to get a /24 out of our upstream, but
> they are
> > essentially out of address space and can't give us any. They
> can't get
> > any more either, because they just got taken over by a larger
> carrier
> > that has free pools, but on a different AS.
> >
> > We do have another upstream that we could connect to, but they can't
> > give us anything more than a /28 either.
> >
> > I applied for a /22 under the immediate need category, but I don't
> > qualify, since I can really only use about 2/3 of it within 30 days.
> >
> > So now I'm stuck with a customer base that has native IPv6 for
> everyone,
> > but only a /29 IPv4 to share between 12 offices and about 200 or so
> > retail WiFi users. I have to do crazy incoming NAT nonsense to
> support
> > my customers mail servers and VPN devices, and I'm crossing my
> fingers
> > that the wireless users don't do something stupid and get us all
> > blacklisted.
> >
> > Should there be an additional policy to deal with initial
> allocations
> > where efficient utilization of X number of IPv6 /64s would serve as
> > justification for a /22 IPv4, or perhaps some other scheme that
> makes it
> > a little easier for new ISPs. I understand that IPv4 is
> constrained,
> > but we aren't out of them yet, and a small ISP still needs an
> allocation
> > to function.
> >
> > Another alternative would be a new entrant policy similar to the
> > immediate need clause, but with the following changes:
> > -Only 50% must be used within 30 days
> > -ISP must demonstrate that IPv6 has been deployed to end users
> > -The same documentation of customer contracts and purchased
> equipment
> > would still apply.
> >
> > I look around and see the big incumbents with no IPv6 to speak
> of, yet
> > they have IPv4 for every customer. Here I am as the little startup
> > trying to make a go of it, but I'm at a serious disadvantage
> because I
> > can't get any address resources.
> >
> > Am I just terribly unlucky, or is this becoming a problem for
> others as
> > well? I think the main issue is that upstream providers aren't
> able to
> > hand out /24s like they used to, so showing a /23 equivalent from an
> > upstream is next to impossible now.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -Tim
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Tim St. Pierre
> > System Operator
> > Communicate Freely
> > 289 225 1220 x5101
> > tim at communicatefreely.net <mailto:tim at communicatefreely.net>
> > www.communicatefreely.net <http://www.communicatefreely.net>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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--
--
Tim St. Pierre
System Operator
Communicate Freely
289 225 1220 x5101
tim at communicatefreely.net
www.communicatefreely.net
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