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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Heather,<br>
<br>
I asked the other upstream about that. Their answer was that they
had used up all their allocations, but they hadn't gotten around
to SWIP'ing everything so they could ask for another block. I'm
not sure that is a good reason, but that's what I was told. I
think with most providers now, they wait to give out every last
bit of address space before they get more, and it's less common to
have whole /24s not used. That could in part be the need to plan
for 3 months predicted need. If you aren't growing in leaps and
bounds, it may be hard to show how you are going to use a /22 or a
/21 in three months<br>
<br>
-Tim<br>
<br>
On 13-04-15 04:18 PM, Heather Schiller wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADricwqb4FBgJSv-T9D5dkmycddumbaTqG7MBdDg8WF_o9edqA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">The second upstream that says they can't give more
than a /28 either -- did they give an explanation? It sounds
like you qualify for space.. does the second provider also not
have space to allocate? The free pool isn't out yet.. the
problems at the first provider that was just bought out aside --
your other provider should still be able to get address space
from ARIN and allocate to you. The rules/requirements haven't
really changed -- just the window of time they can get space for
has changed.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>That aside, I'm in favor of the idea of
allocating/justifying PI v4 space to folks with a v6
deployment. I'd like to hear more about how common a problem
this is. <br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--Heather</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Scott
Leibrand <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Tim,<br>
<br>
Thanks for bringing this up. It sounds like a real issue,
which could use some policy work. Cross-posting to PPML,
where such policy discussions occur.<br>
<br>
Scott<br>
<br>
On Apr 15, 2013, at 7:43 AM, "Tim St. Pierre" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tim@communicatefreely.net">tim@communicatefreely.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> We are a new ISP, and we have had some interesting
dilemma's getting<br>
> started. I'm curious to know if this is something that
has affected<br>
> others, or if I'm just in a strange situation.<br>
><br>
> We are building out an access network to reach business
customers in a<br>
> small town. We will probably never be very big, but we
like are town<br>
> and are hoping to eventually extend our reach to most
business in town.<br>
> When we started, we requested a /32 IPv6 from ARIN. We
had to explain<br>
> what we were doing, and our coverage area, etc. This
seems reasonable<br>
> and all, and eventually we got our /32. At this point,
all we had was a<br>
> /28 IPv4 SWIP'd from an upstream, so our fees jumped
from $0 to $1800<br>
> for the year.<br>
><br>
> Now we have a running network, with real customers, and
we need IPv4<br>
> allocations, since running IPv6 only for retail
Internet is a bit<br>
> problematic. We tried to get a /24 out of our
upstream, but they are<br>
> essentially out of address space and can't give us any.
They can't get<br>
> any more either, because they just got taken over by a
larger carrier<br>
> that has free pools, but on a different AS.<br>
><br>
> We do have another upstream that we could connect to,
but they can't<br>
> give us anything more than a /28 either.<br>
><br>
> I applied for a /22 under the immediate need category,
but I don't<br>
> qualify, since I can really only use about 2/3 of it
within 30 days.<br>
><br>
> So now I'm stuck with a customer base that has native
IPv6 for everyone,<br>
> but only a /29 IPv4 to share between 12 offices and
about 200 or so<br>
> retail WiFi users. I have to do crazy incoming NAT
nonsense to support<br>
> my customers mail servers and VPN devices, and I'm
crossing my fingers<br>
> that the wireless users don't do something stupid and
get us all<br>
> blacklisted.<br>
><br>
> Should there be an additional policy to deal with
initial allocations<br>
> where efficient utilization of X number of IPv6 /64s
would serve as<br>
> justification for a /22 IPv4, or perhaps some other
scheme that makes it<br>
> a little easier for new ISPs. I understand that IPv4
is constrained,<br>
> but we aren't out of them yet, and a small ISP still
needs an allocation<br>
> to function.<br>
><br>
> Another alternative would be a new entrant policy
similar to the<br>
> immediate need clause, but with the following changes:<br>
> -Only 50% must be used within 30 days<br>
> -ISP must demonstrate that IPv6 has been deployed to
end users<br>
> -The same documentation of customer contracts and
purchased equipment<br>
> would still apply.<br>
><br>
> I look around and see the big incumbents with no IPv6
to speak of, yet<br>
> they have IPv4 for every customer. Here I am as the
little startup<br>
> trying to make a go of it, but I'm at a serious
disadvantage because I<br>
> can't get any address resources.<br>
><br>
> Am I just terribly unlucky, or is this becoming a
problem for others as<br>
> well? I think the main issue is that upstream
providers aren't able to<br>
> hand out /24s like they used to, so showing a /23
equivalent from an<br>
> upstream is next to impossible now.<br>
><br>
> Thanks!<br>
> -Tim<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> --<br>
> Tim St. Pierre<br>
> System Operator<br>
> Communicate Freely<br>
> 289 225 1220 x5101<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tim@communicatefreely.net">tim@communicatefreely.net</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.communicatefreely.net" target="_blank">www.communicatefreely.net</a><br>
><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--
Tim St. Pierre
System Operator
Communicate Freely
289 225 1220 x5101
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tim@communicatefreely.net">tim@communicatefreely.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.communicatefreely.net">www.communicatefreely.net</a></pre>
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