ARIN Justified...

Scott Rogers SRogers at
Sun Jan 7 19:09:32 EST 2001

Thanks for the clarifications.

What are some of the reasons a Search Engine would ban
an IP?

Like I said, part of me (the part that has no revenue requirements)
says if the customer gets his IP banned, then they (probably)
deserved it.  My customer is the owner of the server.  In my opinion,
they need to take responsibility for their customers.

On the flip side, a large portion of them (my customers) are
clue-less people that bought servers with control panels to let
them add their own customers.  They usally neither know nor care
what those people do unless/until it costs them money.  Either in bandwidth
charges, or cancellation of other customers.  

They also seem to care when we pull their plug after they have been
compromised and the hacker starts using them as a jumping off point
for the next victim.  We are very proactive in that reguard.  If only
the real ISP's would be as proactive.  Even simple access lists to
block source addresses not their own (spoofing) would help.  Yes, I
know I'm off the topic...  Just a freindly reminder to all to help
protect the net.

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon
To: vwp at
Sent: 1/7/01 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: ARIN Justified...

I don't know what's up with SSL, but we run it fine in IP-less setup. No
one ever reported any problems. As for getting IP
(s) banned from a SE, it's not due to spammers submitting IPs instead of
their domain name, but due to search engines 
using IPs to ban instead of the site name. Imagine a hosting company
that has 100 clients sharing 1 IP and someone 
gets this IP banned. This automatically bans all 99 other client's sites
for no reason. That's where the problem is.


On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:41:33 -0800, Scott Rogers wrote:

>OK, It appears I've been unber a misconception.
>To my defense, it's been over a year since I did
>anything directly with the search engines.
>The good news (for me) is that I now have more ammunition
>to deny IP addresses to my customers, since they were
>using the "search engines don't support it" excuse.
>I understand that SSL (may) still be a valid reason for
>individual addresses.  Am I wrong here? (Anyone).
>As far as I'm concernded, if they (my customers) get
>their IP addresses blocked, then they are either doing
>something they are not supposed to be doing, or allowing
>their customers to do things they shouldn't be doing.
>I'd rather have to give them a second IP when they get one
>blocked, and have them go through the hassle of re-numbering
>everthing, than give them a block of IP's (they they will
>just get blocked anyway).  It might even discourage them
>from letting their IP's be used for SPAM, DoS, etc if they
>have to keep renumbering and changing the DNS for everything,
>everytime they do something stupid.
>As the Decicated Server/Colocation facility, I do bandwidth
>accounting by Switch Port (bytes based), not IP addresses.
>My customers seem to be happy with Web reporting (WebTrends)
>to breack it down from there.  This does include FTP, but
>not streaming audio.  They will have to figure that out
>So, as a hosting company, what other valid reasons are left
>for multiple "real" IP's, other than SSL ?
>BTW: Thanks for letting me vent here and there, as well as
>correcting some of my mis-conceptions on the search engines.
>Now maybe I won't sound so much like the high and mighty fool :-)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe DeCosta
>To: Scott Rogers
>Cc: 'Jawaid.Bazyar at '; ''Leonard Gilbert ' '; '''Simon '
' ';
>''vwp at ' '
>Sent: 1/7/01 1:05 PM
>Subject: Re: ARIN Justified...
>I'm pretty sure that Yahoo! and google, do, because all of our VHosted
>sites appear on their directories.
>Scott Rogers wrote:
>> OK, I've heard of two search engines now that
>> support http/1.1 name based virtual web sites.
>>   AltaVista and Excite.
>> I have a feeling this is recent (last 6 months).
>> This is good news to me.  Now, does anyone know
>> about YAHOO, LYCOS, MSN (go, google, snap, whatever)?
>> WHat are the other "major" search engines?
>> --

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