From rts at rdr.net Sat Oct 7 20:00:20 2000 From: rts at rdr.net (RTS) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 19:00:20 -0500 Subject: IP Space Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001007185902.00ab3780@pop3.rdr.net> I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache pages for help on named based virtual hosting. Does anyone know where that is?? Randy From tpavlic at netwalk.com Sun Oct 8 13:43:02 2000 From: tpavlic at netwalk.com (Ted Pavlic) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 13:43:02 -0400 Subject: IP Space References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001007185902.00ab3780@pop3.rdr.net> Message-ID: <038b01c0314f$356717a0$0301830a@tednet> http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html I hope that helps. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "RTS" To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM Subject: IP Space > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > Randy > > From info at avehost.com Tue Oct 17 21:16:53 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:16:53 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <038b01c0314f$356717a0$0301830a@tednet> Message-ID: Ted: Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of Ted Pavlic Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM To: policy at arin.net; RTS Subject: Re: IP Space http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html I hope that helps. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "RTS" To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM Subject: IP Space > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > Randy > > From susan at lh.net Tue Oct 17 23:05:41 2000 From: susan at lh.net (Susan Zeigler) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:05:41 -0500 Subject: IP Space References: Message-ID: <39ED1385.F468072C@lh.net> Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From info at avehost.com Wed Oct 18 01:41:09 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:41:09 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <39ED1385.F468072C@lh.net> Message-ID: Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From info at avehost.com Wed Oct 18 02:01:15 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:01:15 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As a followup, I know why you say "my enterprise-level clients, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP" because they are using multiple sites to access one website with the SSL, that's the only way to do SSL with one IP in IIS (that I know of and no-one has been able to tell me differently, even Microsoft experts I have hired for that sole purpose). Thus, for an enterprise, this setup works fine, after all, its the same company's store they are selling from. But when you look at the architecture of a web hosting company's shared NY or Win2k server, and most other hosting shared servers if not all other shared server OS's, that scenario is not acceptable. I can't have customer A share a store with customer B but that is the only way to do it in IIS. Thus, again, thank you for slowing the growth of the New Economy, ARIN. I consider the Americans that agreed to this policy traitors to their country! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 1:41 AM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From info at avehost.com Wed Oct 18 05:41:44 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:41:44 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Susan: Below is a previous posting just last month on this mailist, I quote: "> > Can I tell all my customers to call you when their online business drops > by almost 50%. By the way, can you use a shared IP for secure server > certificates? No, you can't, which is why there are exceptions to the policy. Granted there isn't a specific exception for SSL, which I think is one place where the group (myself included) erred in Calgary last March." AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 From tpavlic at netwalk.com Wed Oct 18 06:32:29 2000 From: tpavlic at netwalk.com (Ted Pavlic) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:32:29 -0400 Subject: IP Space References: Message-ID: <0ab701c038ee$b820c0a0$0301830a@tednet> I'm very aware of this. If you read some of my previous posts on this newsgroup, you'll find that I do not support the policy change. Non-HTTP "web" services and accessories affected negatively by name-based hosting: * FTP * SSL/TLS * FrontPage Server Extensions * load balancing * more that I can't think of now Personally, I feel ARIN should have used "HTTP-hosting" rather than "web hosting" in their policy changes. The technology just doesn't exist at the moment to support the type of changes on the scale of "web" that they propose. And you'll notice that the information they reference on their name_based page regarding TLS and name-based hosting is an EXPIRED INTERNET DRAFT. This brings up a couple of issues: *) At the top of every IETF draft it states that the draft should NOT **EVER** be cited for reference ANYWHERE *) The DRAFT IS EXPIRED! Not only is it a draft, but it's an expired draft which just adds insult to injury by placing on that page. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "AveHost.com Staff" To: "Ted Pavlic" Cc: "Policy at Arin. Net" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: RE: IP Space > > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > From tpavlic at netwalk.com Wed Oct 18 06:37:48 2000 From: tpavlic at netwalk.com (Ted Pavlic) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:37:48 -0400 Subject: IP Space References: <39ED1385.F468072C@lh.net> Message-ID: <0ac101c038ef$790e66a0$0301830a@tednet> I believe you're very much mistaken. I think you are misrepresenting your configuration to us. SSL cannot exchange "Host:" header information because that "Host:" header information occurs *AFTER* the keys are exchanged and data starts to be encrypted. This means that there is no way to tell the server to use a different key based on a different host. If you *THINK* you've configured SSL to work with name-based hosting, you should probably go to a few of your SSL sites and look at the cert. that was give to the browser. You will probably find that *EVERY* SSL site has been giving out the *SAME* CERT. This is a problem that has been recognized by SSL web server developers as well as ARIN. If you take a look at ARIN's name_based page, http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html you shall see that ARIN references IETF drafts (which is *VERY* inappropriate and just very poor) which talk about doing HTTP/1.1 over TLS. In order to do HTTP/1.1 name-based hosting properly, a web browser should have to connect to a port (like 80) on a server, exchange Host: header information, and then "UPGRADE" to TLS after Host: header information has been exchanged. This will exchange the correct certs and turn that port into a secure one. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Zeigler" To: "Policy at Arin. Net" Cc: ; "Ted Pavlic" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:05 PM Subject: Re: IP Space > Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level > clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a > single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to > handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. > > "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > > Ted: > > > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > > > AveHost.com Staff > > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > > 201-840-7311 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > > Of Ted Pavlic > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > > Subject: Re: IP Space > > > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > All the best -- > > Ted > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "RTS" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > > Subject: IP Space > > > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > From tpavlic at netwalk.com Wed Oct 18 06:41:23 2000 From: tpavlic at netwalk.com (Ted Pavlic) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:41:23 -0400 Subject: IP Space References: <39ED1385.F468072C@lh.net> Message-ID: <0acd01c038ef$f5c15040$0301830a@tednet> Also understand that we're not talking about multiple sites being: https://www.enterprise.com/site1/ https://www.enterprise.com/site2/ Such a setup would just require a cert for www.enterprise.com. The issue occurs with: https://www.site1.com/ https://www.site2.com/ Which require different certs. The proper certificate information has to be exchanged BEFORE the Host: header line with the current implementation of SSL. There is no way to send that Host: line before the certs and therefore the same certificate is sent to the browser for both sites. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Zeigler" To: "Policy at Arin. Net" Cc: ; "Ted Pavlic" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:05 PM Subject: Re: IP Space > Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level > clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a > single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to > handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. > > "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > > Ted: > > > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > > > AveHost.com Staff > > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > > 201-840-7311 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > > Of Ted Pavlic > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > > Subject: Re: IP Space > > > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > All the best -- > > Ted > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "RTS" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > > Subject: IP Space > > > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > From richardj at arin.net Wed Oct 18 08:36:12 2000 From: richardj at arin.net (Richard Jimmerson) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:36:12 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01f301c03900$00887520$bdfc95c0@ARINNET> Hello All, Please note the name-based web hosting policy being discussed here has been suspended due to discussions on the ARIN policy mailing lists and at the recent public policy meeting held in Herndon, VA. More information about this can be found under the announcements section of ARIN's front page (http://www.arin.net). The announcements mentioned above include information on how to become involved in committee activities related to this subject. Please participate in this committee, as your views are vital to any policy development that may take place in the future. A committee charter will be sent to the virtual web hosting policy mailing list soon. Best Regards, Richard Jimmerson American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >-----Original Message----- >From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf >Of AveHost.com Staff >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:42 AM >To: David R Huberman; susan at lh.net >Cc: Policy at Arin. Net >Subject: RE: IP Space > > > >Susan: > >Below is a previous posting just last month on this mailist, I quote: > >"> >> Can I tell all my customers to call you when their online >business drops >> by almost 50%. By the way, can you use a shared IP for secure server >> certificates? > >No, you can't, which is why there are exceptions to the >policy. Granted >there isn't a specific exception for SSL, which I think is one >place where >the group (myself included) erred in Calgary last March." > > > >AveHost.com Staff >AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International >201-840-7311 > > From alexk at tugger.net Wed Oct 18 10:24:07 2000 From: alexk at tugger.net (Alex Kamantauskas) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Thus, again, thank you for slowing the growth of the New Economy, ARIN. > I consider the Americans that agreed to this policy traitors to their > country! Well, I wouldn't go that far... US Constitution, Article III, Section 3 "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court." -- Alex Kamantauskas alexk at tugger.net From DHerpin at c3com.com Wed Oct 18 12:29:14 2000 From: DHerpin at c3com.com (Herpin, David P.) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:29:14 -0500 Subject: IP Space Message-ID: <9B78CF61FE24D311A32700902785EF2C01A0223E@ils.c3com.com> FYI. I asked ARIN about their policy and how they were handling the many providers who have SSL websites, and their reply along with my question to them is included below. This should address your concern about "restricting the NEW Economy's development" below. Here is the verbage of this web page: http://www.arin.net/announcements/webhosting.html Name-based Web Hosting Policy Suspended ARIN's name-based web hosting policy that was enacted on 7 July, 2000, has been suspended. The policy was discussed at the open public policy meeting at ARIN VI in Herndon, VA, and included the comments made on ARIN's public mailing lists in the months leading up to the meeting. As a result of these discussions, ARIN's Board of Trustees suspended the policy pending further review by a committee. A mailing list has been established for this committee and it will be moderated by ARIN's advisory council. The committee list is open to all interested parties. Those interested in subscribing to this mailing list and participating in the committee's activities may do so by subscribing to the Virtual Web Hosting mailing list ( vwp-request at arin.net ). See http://www.arin.net/members/mailing.htm for more information. -----Original Message----- From: Network Modification Role Account [mailto:netmod at arin.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:07 AM To: DHerpin at c3com.com Subject: Re: [ARIN-20001017.1573] Host Headers (Virtual Name hosting) Hello, Please review the change to web hosting guidelines at: http://www.arin.net/announcements/webhosting.html If you have any further questions please contact us. Regards, Scott Whipple Registration Services American Registry for Internet Numbers =================================================================== email hostmaster at arin.net ftp, whois rs.arin.net website http://www.arin.net =================================================================== > From DHerpin at c3com.com Tue Oct 17 22:17:48 2000 > Received: from rs2.arin.net (rs2.arin.net [192.149.252.22]) > by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA22389 > for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:17:48 -0400 (EDT) > Received: from mas006.c3com.com (user66.c3com.com [209.44.108.66]) > by rs2.arin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05856 > for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:17:47 -0400 (EDT) > Received: by ils.c3com.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > id ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:17:16 -0500 > Message-ID: <9B78CF61FE24D311A32700902785EF2C01A0223B at ils.c3com.com> > From: "Herpin, David P." > To: "'hostmaster at arin.net'" > Cc: "Herpin, David P." > Subject: [ARIN-20001017.1573] Host Headers (Virtual Name hosting) > Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:17:15 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > X-MTS-Ticket: 20001017.1573 > X-MTS-Type: netmod > X-MTS-Mode: Unknown > X-MTS-Priority: Normal > X-MTS-Status: Open > X-MTS-Timestamp: 20001017221749 > > > I read your policy about IP-Based web hosting and have been hearing a > recurring complaint. SSL will not work without a static IP Address. How > will ARIN's policy address those web servers and providers who have a large > percentage of SSL web sites? > -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:17 PM To: Ted Pavlic Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Ted: Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of Ted Pavlic Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM To: policy at arin.net; RTS Subject: Re: IP Space http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html I hope that helps. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "RTS" To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM Subject: IP Space > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > Randy > > From info at avehost.com Wed Oct 18 14:18:06 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:18:06 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I must apologize for such a rude remark, I am just trying to convey the frustration that is being felt here on the "frontline", so to speak, in getting IP's assigned for ecommerce sites. As I said before, 50% of our customers want ecommerce and with limitations, or even the perceived limitations our upstream providers are claiming, this really affects our bottom line and could affect the progress and growth of the "New Economy", seriously. AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Alex Kamantauskas [mailto:alexk at tugger.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 10:24 AM To: AveHost.com Staff Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space > Thus, again, thank you for slowing the growth of the New Economy, ARIN. > I consider the Americans that agreed to this policy traitors to their > country! Well, I wouldn't go that far... US Constitution, Article III, Section 3 "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court." -- Alex Kamantauskas alexk at tugger.net From ahp at hilander.com Wed Oct 18 14:07:32 2000 From: ahp at hilander.com (Alec H. Peterson) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:07:32 -0600 Subject: IP Space References: Message-ID: <39EDE6E4.23AC3911@hilander.com> "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > I must apologize for such a rude remark, I am just trying to convey the > frustration that is being felt here on the "frontline", so to speak, in > getting IP's assigned for ecommerce sites. As I said before, 50% of our > customers want ecommerce and with limitations, or even the perceived > limitations our upstream providers are claiming, this really affects our > bottom line and could affect the progress and growth of the "New Economy", > seriously. Since this is so important to you I suggest you join the VWP list that has just been created. vwp-request at arin.net is the majordomo list server. Alec -- Alec H. Peterson - ahp at hilander.com Staff Scientist CenterGate Research Group - http://www.centergate.com "Technology so advanced, even _we_ don't understand it!" From Clay at exodus.net Mon Oct 23 21:30:33 2000 From: Clay at exodus.net (Clayton Lambert) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:30:33 -0700 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200010240130.SAA10678@exoserv.exodus.net> I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From Clay at exodus.net Mon Oct 23 21:36:42 2000 From: Clay at exodus.net (Clayton Lambert) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200010240136.SAA11129@exoserv.exodus.net> Hi David, Actually, I addressed it in march during the forum, and it was a strong justification point for approving the policy. Simply stated, if there are exceptions they must be documentented. Exceptions must not be vendor specific, and only protocol specific. And, as http1.1 is the accepted protocol in this discussion, http 1.0 is excluded from the protocol exception criteria. -Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:42 AM To: David R Huberman; susan at lh.net Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: Below is a previous posting just last month on this mailist, I quote: "> > Can I tell all my customers to call you when their online business drops > by almost 50%. By the way, can you use a shared IP for secure server > certificates? No, you can't, which is why there are exceptions to the policy. Granted there isn't a specific exception for SSL, which I think is one place where the group (myself included) erred in Calgary last March." AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 From DHerpin at c3com.com Mon Oct 23 22:55:55 2000 From: DHerpin at c3com.com (Herpin, David P.) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:55:55 -0500 Subject: IP Space Message-ID: <9B78CF61FE24D311A32700902785EF2C01A0225E@ils.c3com.com> I think what this discussion is about is a policy that has been suspended by ARIN. Included below is the verbage I received brom ARIN. I think it applies to this thread. -------------------------------------- CLIP FROM ANOTHER NOTE FROM ARIN -------------------------------------- FYI. I asked ARIN about their policy and how they were handling the many providers who have SSL websites, and their reply along with my question to them is included below. This should address your concern about "restricting the NEW Economy's development" below. Here is the verbage of this web page: http://www.arin.net/announcements/webhosting.html Name-based Web Hosting Policy Suspended ARIN's name-based web hosting policy that was enacted on 7 July, 2000, has been suspended. The policy was discussed at the open public policy meeting at ARIN VI in Herndon, VA, and included the comments made on ARIN's public mailing lists in the months leading up to the meeting. As a result of these discussions, ARIN's Board of Trustees suspended the policy pending further review by a committee. A mailing list has been established for this committee and it will be moderated by ARIN's advisory council. The committee list is open to all interested parties. Those interested in subscribing to this mailing list and participating in the committee's activities may do so by subscribing to the Virtual Web Hosting mailing list ( vwp-request at arin.net ). See http://www.arin.net/members/mailing.htm for more information. -----Original Message----- From: Network Modification Role Account [mailto:netmod at arin.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:07 AM To: DHerpin at c3com.com Subject: Re: [ARIN-20001017.1573] Host Headers (Virtual Name hosting) Hello, Please review the change to web hosting guidelines at: http://www.arin.net/announcements/webhosting.html If you have any further questions please contact us. Regards, Scott Whipple Registration Services American Registry for Internet Numbers =================================================================== email hostmaster at arin.net ftp, whois rs.arin.net website http://www.arin.net =================================================================== > From DHerpin at c3com.com Tue Oct 17 22:17:48 2000 > Received: from rs2.arin.net (rs2.arin.net [192.149.252.22]) > by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA22389 > for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:17:48 -0400 (EDT) > Received: from mas006.c3com.com (user66.c3com.com [209.44.108.66]) > by rs2.arin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05856 > for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:17:47 -0400 (EDT) > Received: by ils.c3com.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > id ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:17:16 -0500 > Message-ID: <9B78CF61FE24D311A32700902785EF2C01A0223B at ils.c3com.com> > From: "Herpin, David P." > To: "'hostmaster at arin.net'" > Cc: "Herpin, David P." > Subject: [ARIN-20001017.1573] Host Headers (Virtual Name hosting) > Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:17:15 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > X-MTS-Ticket: 20001017.1573 > X-MTS-Type: netmod > X-MTS-Mode: Unknown > X-MTS-Priority: Normal > X-MTS-Status: Open > X-MTS-Timestamp: 20001017221749 > > > I read your policy about IP-Based web hosting and have been hearing a > recurring complaint. SSL will not work without a static IP Address. How > will ARIN's policy address those web servers and providers who have a large > percentage of SSL web sites? > -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:17 PM To: Ted Pavlic Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Ted: Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of Ted Pavlic Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM To: policy at arin.net; RTS Subject: Re: IP Space http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html I hope that helps. All the best -- Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "RTS" To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM Subject: IP Space > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > Randy > > -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 8:37 PM To: info at avehost.com; 'David R Huberman'; susan at lh.net Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space Hi David, Actually, I addressed it in march during the forum, and it was a strong justification point for approving the policy. Simply stated, if there are exceptions they must be documentented. Exceptions must not be vendor specific, and only protocol specific. And, as http1.1 is the accepted protocol in this discussion, http 1.0 is excluded from the protocol exception criteria. -Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:42 AM To: David R Huberman; susan at lh.net Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: Below is a previous posting just last month on this mailist, I quote: "> > Can I tell all my customers to call you when their online business drops > by almost 50%. By the way, can you use a shared IP for secure server > certificates? No, you can't, which is why there are exceptions to the policy. Granted there isn't a specific exception for SSL, which I think is one place where the group (myself included) erred in Calgary last March." AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 From info at avehost.com Tue Oct 24 00:50:24 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:50:24 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <200010240130.SAA10678@exoserv.exodus.net> Message-ID: I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From bve at quadrix.com Tue Oct 24 15:30:57 2000 From: bve at quadrix.com (Bill Van Emburg) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:30:57 -0400 Subject: IP Space References: Message-ID: <39F5E371.D27402A2@quadrix.com> Actually, I do question your numbers. The last I heard, more sites on the Internet were running Apache than anything else. Your numbers derive from an ill-defined subset of "the largest retail sites." By whose definition? However, more to the point, while IIS numbers certainly *are* vendor-specific, I disagree strongly with Mr. Lambert's statement, "I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations." I believe that any policy you set must account for the reality of what's available (commercially and free) to the vast majority of web sites on the Internet. Setting a policy that can't be followed by users of Apache, Netscape and IIS, for starters, is completely unreasonable, and I would oppose such a policy vigorously. -- -- Bill Van Emburg Quadrix Solutions, Inc. Phone: 732-235-2335, x206 (mailto:bve at quadrix.com) Fax: 732-235-2336 (http://quadrix.com) The eBusiness Solutions Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is > hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are > running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail > sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to > tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM > To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. > Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. > > Clayton Lambert > Exodus Communications > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of AveHost.com Staff > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM > To: Susan Zeigler > Cc: Policy at Arin. Net > Subject: RE: IP Space > > Susan: > > I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. > There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the > same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of > water! > From Mike at netwright.net Tue Oct 24 16:07:57 2000 From: Mike at netwright.net (Mike Lieberman) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:07:57 -0600 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <39F5E371.D27402A2@quadrix.com> Message-ID: <002001c03df6$1abcbdc0$fe00a9d8@SWEETNESS> Bill, it's the Apache numbers that may be suspect. There is amply evidence that the number of Apache servers is bloated by casual installation of the code on Linux boxes. Many of these boxes are not really providing any HTTP services. What you get when to look at many of these Apache installations is the default apache screen. Just another example of the common saying There are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics. IIS, whether you are a fan of it or not, is relatively widely installed across the industry. Establishing a policy that doesn't take it into account, is at least contentious, and may bespeak an inherent arrogance toward those who use IIS. > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net > [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Bill Van Emburg > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:31 PM > To: info at avehost.com > Cc: Clayton Lambert; 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: Re: IP Space > > > Actually, I do question your numbers. The last I heard, more sites on > the Internet were running Apache than anything else. Your numbers > derive from an ill-defined subset of "the largest retail sites." By > whose definition? > > However, more to the point, while IIS numbers certainly *are* > vendor-specific, I disagree strongly with Mr. Lambert's statement, "I > think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific > limitations." > > I believe that any policy you set must account for the > reality of what's > available (commercially and free) to the vast majority of web sites on > the Internet. Setting a policy that can't be followed by users of > Apache, Netscape and IIS, for starters, is completely > unreasonable, and > I would oppose such a policy vigorously. > -- > > -- Bill Van Emburg > Quadrix Solutions, Inc. > Phone: 732-235-2335, x206 (mailto:bve at quadrix.com) > Fax: 732-235-2336 (http://quadrix.com) > The eBusiness Solutions Company > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > > > I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in > any version, is > > hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the > public Internet are > > running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of > the largest retail > > sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. > Are you going to > > tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? > > > > AveHost.com Staff > > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > > 201-840-7311 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] > > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM > > To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' > > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > > Subject: RE: IP Space > > > > I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific > limitations. > > Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. > > > > Clayton Lambert > > Exodus Communications > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of AveHost.com Staff > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM > To: Susan Zeigler > Cc: Policy at Arin. Net > Subject: RE: IP Space > > Susan: > > I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. > There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the > same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of > water! > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mike Lieberman (E-mail).vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 519 bytes Desc: not available URL: From info at avehost.com Tue Oct 24 17:18:36 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:18:36 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <39F5E371.D27402A2@quadrix.com> Message-ID: The numbers I quoted was from the dellhost.com website. And I agree with you, perhaps IIS is vendor specific but the problem I was referring to was NOT vendor specific. AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of Bill Van Emburg Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 3:31 PM To: info at avehost.com Cc: Clayton Lambert; 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: Re: IP Space Actually, I do question your numbers. The last I heard, more sites on the Internet were running Apache than anything else. Your numbers derive from an ill-defined subset of "the largest retail sites." By whose definition? However, more to the point, while IIS numbers certainly *are* vendor-specific, I disagree strongly with Mr. Lambert's statement, "I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations." I believe that any policy you set must account for the reality of what's available (commercially and free) to the vast majority of web sites on the Internet. Setting a policy that can't be followed by users of Apache, Netscape and IIS, for starters, is completely unreasonable, and I would oppose such a policy vigorously. -- -- Bill Van Emburg Quadrix Solutions, Inc. Phone: 732-235-2335, x206 (mailto:bve at quadrix.com) Fax: 732-235-2336 (http://quadrix.com) The eBusiness Solutions Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is > hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are > running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail > sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to > tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM > To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. > Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. > > Clayton Lambert > Exodus Communications > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of AveHost.com Staff > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM > To: Susan Zeigler > Cc: Policy at Arin. Net > Subject: RE: IP Space > > Susan: > > I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. > There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the > same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of > water! > From Clay at exodus.net Wed Oct 25 15:14:46 2000 From: Clay at exodus.net (Clayton Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:14:46 -0700 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200010251914.MAA02060@exoserv.exodus.net> Yes, I am. They ARE vendor specific. I question the validity of the numbers you indicate. Even IF they were accurate, MicroSoft is STILL a vendor. Sometime policies have to be firm. JUst because a company the size of MicroSoft sells a LOT of widgets, doesn't mean we should change the rules to make the implementation of the MicroSoft widget easier. -Clayton Lambert -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:50 PM To: Clayton Lambert Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From Clay at exodus.net Wed Oct 25 15:49:03 2000 From: Clay at exodus.net (Clayton Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:49:03 -0700 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200010251949.MAA08098@exoserv.exodus.net> What I am refering to as non-vendor specific is just that: it is wrong to create a public policy that addresses specific limitations with SPECIFIC vendor's software. What this means is that wrapping the policy around MS is wrong and it provides an unfair advantage for that vendor, in comparison to that vendors competitors. I am not suggesting that a policy be created that does not take into accound the overall availability of compatible solutions (i.e. all/most the vendors in a given arena). I agree with your statement that: "I believe that any policy you set must account for the reality of what's available (commercially and free) to the vast majority of web sites on the Internet. Setting a policy that can't be followed by users of Apache, Netscape and IIS, for starters, is completely unreasonable, and I would oppose such a policy vigorously." I would also oppose such a policy. I do NOT see the documentation requirement, nor the HTTP1.1 policy in general as a policy that cannot be supported by the majority of users. -Clayton -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:19 PM To: Bill Van Emburg Cc: Clayton Lambert; 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space The numbers I quoted was from the dellhost.com website. And I agree with you, perhaps IIS is vendor specific but the problem I was referring to was NOT vendor specific. AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of Bill Van Emburg Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 3:31 PM To: info at avehost.com Cc: Clayton Lambert; 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: Re: IP Space Actually, I do question your numbers. The last I heard, more sites on the Internet were running Apache than anything else. Your numbers derive from an ill-defined subset of "the largest retail sites." By whose definition? However, more to the point, while IIS numbers certainly *are* vendor-specific, I disagree strongly with Mr. Lambert's statement, "I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations." I believe that any policy you set must account for the reality of what's available (commercially and free) to the vast majority of web sites on the Internet. Setting a policy that can't be followed by users of Apache, Netscape and IIS, for starters, is completely unreasonable, and I would oppose such a policy vigorously. -- -- Bill Van Emburg Quadrix Solutions, Inc. Phone: 732-235-2335, x206 (mailto:bve at quadrix.com) Fax: 732-235-2336 (http://quadrix.com) The eBusiness Solutions Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is > hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are > running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail > sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to > tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM > To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. > Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. > > Clayton Lambert > Exodus Communications > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of AveHost.com Staff > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM > To: Susan Zeigler > Cc: Policy at Arin. Net > Subject: RE: IP Space > > Susan: > > I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. > There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the > same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of > water! > From info at avehost.com Wed Oct 25 20:49:58 2000 From: info at avehost.com (AveHost.com Staff) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:49:58 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <200010251914.MAA02060@exoserv.exodus.net> Message-ID: You did not read my follow-up, as I stated previously, I pulled those numbers right from Dell, so take it up with them please. Another thing to note is, any policy that affects the implementation or utility of a web server as popular as IIS negatively, or for that matter, any web server system, whether purposefully targeting it or not, is not a flexible enough policy to be implemented, period. Let's keep our focus here, this is what we are talking about, forget semantics, what is important is that enough information is gathered from the Internet community at large to determine how a particular policy will affect that community taking into account the environment at large. You can't make a policy based on the assumption that all web servers running Red Hat can manage with the new policy and forget that there are NT, Win2k, etc other servers out there also. Therefore, the policy must be broad enough and flexible enough to account for these variations in the environment of the public Internet. Since the policy of restricting IP's for hosting has been suspended, I think their is, thank goodness, some realization that the alternative solutions and work-arounds for IP-based SSL, etc are not as clear-cut and broadly applicable as once thought, as there are some of us that think Unix is a FOUR LETTER word. Support Staff AveHost.com 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:15 PM To: info at avehost.com Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space Yes, I am. They ARE vendor specific. I question the validity of the numbers you indicate. Even IF they were accurate, MicroSoft is STILL a vendor. Sometime policies have to be firm. JUst because a company the size of MicroSoft sells a LOT of widgets, doesn't mean we should change the rules to make the implementation of the MicroSoft widget easier. -Clayton Lambert -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:50 PM To: Clayton Lambert Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From alexk at tugger.net Thu Oct 26 00:13:39 2000 From: alexk at tugger.net (Alex Kamantauskas) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, AveHost.com Staff wrote: > > Since the policy of restricting IP's for hosting has been suspended, I > think their is, thank goodness, some realization that the alternative > solutions and work-arounds for IP-based SSL, etc are not as clear-cut and > broadly applicable as once thought, as there are some of us that think > Unix is a FOUR LETTER word. > And some of those who think that STANDARDS is a nine-letter word. Maybe if it were a word Microsoft was a little more concerned with we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. -- Alex Kamantauskas alexk at tugger.net From hgatei at purepacket.com Thu Oct 26 08:19:06 2000 From: hgatei at purepacket.com (Henry Gatei) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:19:06 -0400 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: <200010251914.MAA02060@exoserv.exodus.net> Message-ID: How did I get on this Henry Gatei Manager Network Planning PurePacket Communications, Inc 1111 alderman Dr. suite 200 Alpharetta, GA 30005 Office(678)566-1172 Pager (770)604-0882 This message contains CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. Any review, disclosure, distribution, copying or use of the information by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by immediate reply and delete the original message. -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of Clayton Lambert Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:15 PM To: info at avehost.com Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space Yes, I am. They ARE vendor specific. I question the validity of the numbers you indicate. Even IF they were accurate, MicroSoft is STILL a vendor. Sometime policies have to be firm. JUst because a company the size of MicroSoft sells a LOT of widgets, doesn't mean we should change the rules to make the implementation of the MicroSoft widget easier. -Clayton Lambert -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:50 PM To: Clayton Lambert Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From Clay at exodus.net Thu Oct 26 13:40:08 2000 From: Clay at exodus.net (Clayton Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:40:08 -0700 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200010261740.KAA23761@exoserv.exodus.net> Once again, you are failing to see the shortsightedness of a policy designed around a specific vendor, in this case it is apparent that vendor is MS for you. The fact that most UNIX based servers have no trouble supporting http1.1 only shows the limitations of other vendors that do not as effectively support http1.1. Addititionally, the policy CLEARLY ALLOWS for EXCEPTIONS. Why are you afraid/unwilling to document your usage? All you have to do is clearly indicate what you are doing that doesn't support http1.1 and you will still keep on burning thru the IP space, as you want. -Clayton -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 5:50 PM To: Clayton Lambert Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space You did not read my follow-up, as I stated previously, I pulled those numbers right from Dell, so take it up with them please. Another thing to note is, any policy that affects the implementation or utility of a web server as popular as IIS negatively, or for that matter, any web server system, whether purposefully targeting it or not, is not a flexible enough policy to be implemented, period. Let's keep our focus here, this is what we are talking about, forget semantics, what is important is that enough information is gathered from the Internet community at large to determine how a particular policy will affect that community taking into account the environment at large. You can't make a policy based on the assumption that all web servers running Red Hat can manage with the new policy and forget that there are NT, Win2k, etc other servers out there also. Therefore, the policy must be broad enough and flexible enough to account for these variations in the environment of the public Internet. Since the policy of restricting IP's for hosting has been suspended, I think their is, thank goodness, some realization that the alternative solutions and work-arounds for IP-based SSL, etc are not as clear-cut and broadly applicable as once thought, as there are some of us that think Unix is a FOUR LETTER word. Support Staff AveHost.com 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:15 PM To: info at avehost.com Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space Yes, I am. They ARE vendor specific. I question the validity of the numbers you indicate. Even IF they were accurate, MicroSoft is STILL a vendor. Sometime policies have to be firm. JUst because a company the size of MicroSoft sells a LOT of widgets, doesn't mean we should change the rules to make the implementation of the MicroSoft widget easier. -Clayton Lambert -----Original Message----- From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:50 PM To: Clayton Lambert Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. Clayton Lambert Exodus Communications -----Original Message----- From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf Of AveHost.com Staff Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM To: Susan Zeigler Cc: Policy at Arin. Net Subject: RE: IP Space Susan: I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of water! AveHost.com Staff AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International 201-840-7311 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM To: Policy at Arin. Net Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic Subject: Re: IP Space Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on a single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier to handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > Ted: > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like an > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Ted Pavlic > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > Subject: Re: IP Space > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > I hope that helps. > > All the best -- > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RTS" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > Subject: IP Space > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > Randy > > > > From Clay at exodus.net Thu Oct 26 13:47:48 2000 From: Clay at exodus.net (Clayton Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:47:48 -0700 Subject: IP Space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200010261747.KAA25722@exoserv.exodus.net> That is the TRUTH. The fact that the policy allows for non-compliant implementations by virtue of documenting them, we have the ability to analyze the data and determine better policy development going forward. The MS folk get the IPs they need and the registry gets the ability to steer policy and documentation requirements in a more effective manner. -Clayton -----Original Message----- From: Alex Kamantauskas [mailto:alexk at tugger.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 9:14 PM To: AveHost.com Staff Cc: Clayton Lambert; 'Policy at Arin. Net' Subject: RE: IP Space On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, AveHost.com Staff wrote: > > Since the policy of restricting IP's for hosting has been suspended, I > think their is, thank goodness, some realization that the alternative > solutions and work-arounds for IP-based SSL, etc are not as clear-cut and > broadly applicable as once thought, as there are some of us that think > Unix is a FOUR LETTER word. > And some of those who think that STANDARDS is a nine-letter word. Maybe if it were a word Microsoft was a little more concerned with we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. -- Alex Kamantauskas alexk at tugger.net From lee2 at golden.net Mon Oct 30 12:17:53 2000 From: lee2 at golden.net (Lee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:17:53 -0500 Subject: IP Space References: <200010261740.KAA23761@exoserv.exodus.net> Message-ID: <002e01c04295$577ca240$519ab7d1@golden.net> I use name-based virtuahosting on both my Unix/Apache and NT/IIS web servers. We host over 2500 web sites, using 3 IP addresses. We have been using name-based virtualhosting for over 2 years now. (Since the v3.0 browsers entered the market.) How does name-based virtualhosting negatively affect IIS? Maybe I'm missing something...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clayton Lambert" To: Cc: "'Policy at Arin. Net'" Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: RE: IP Space > Once again, you are failing to see the shortsightedness of a policy designed > around a specific vendor, in this case it is apparent that vendor is MS for > you. The fact that most UNIX based servers have no trouble supporting > http1.1 only shows the limitations of other vendors that do not as > effectively support http1.1. > > Addititionally, the policy CLEARLY ALLOWS for EXCEPTIONS. Why are you > afraid/unwilling to document your usage? All you have to do is clearly > indicate what you are doing that doesn't support http1.1 and you will still > keep on burning thru the IP space, as you want. > > -Clayton > > -----Original Message----- > From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 5:50 PM > To: Clayton Lambert > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > > > You did not read my follow-up, as I stated previously, I pulled those > numbers right from Dell, so take it up with them please. Another thing to > note is, any policy that affects the implementation or utility of a web > server as popular as IIS negatively, or for that matter, any web server > system, whether purposefully targeting it or not, is not a flexible enough > policy to be implemented, period. Let's keep our focus here, this is what > we are talking about, forget semantics, what is important is that enough > information is gathered from the Internet community at large to determine > how a particular policy will affect that community taking into account the > environment at large. You can't make a policy based on the assumption that > all web servers running Red Hat can manage with the new policy and forget > that there are NT, Win2k, etc other servers out there also. Therefore, the > policy must be broad enough and flexible enough to account for these > variations in the environment of the public Internet. > > Since the policy of restricting IP's for hosting has been suspended, I think > their is, thank goodness, some realization that the alternative solutions > and work-arounds for IP-based SSL, etc are not as clear-cut and broadly > applicable as once thought, as there are some of us that think Unix is a > FOUR LETTER word. > > Support Staff > AveHost.com > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:15 PM > To: info at avehost.com > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > > Yes, I am. They ARE vendor specific. I question the validity of the > numbers you indicate. Even IF they were accurate, MicroSoft is STILL a > vendor. Sometime policies have to be firm. JUst because a company the size > of MicroSoft sells a LOT of widgets, doesn't mean we should change the rules > to make the implementation of the MicroSoft widget easier. > > > -Clayton Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: AveHost.com Staff [mailto:info at avehost.com] > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:50 PM > To: Clayton Lambert > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > > > I think any policy that affects the operation of IIS, in any version, is > hardly "vendor specific" as many, many servers on the public Internet are > running IIS, in fact, 47% of the secure sites and 52% of the largest retail > sites on the Internet are running on Microsoft Windows?. Are you going to > tell me those are "vendor specific" numbers? > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net] > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:31 PM > To: info at avehost.com; 'Susan Zeigler' > Cc: 'Policy at Arin. Net' > Subject: RE: IP Space > > > I think it is erroneous to hold policies to vendor-specific limitations. > Protocol support should be the primary focus for policy. > > Clayton Lambert > Exodus Communications > > -----Original Message----- > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > Of AveHost.com Staff > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:41 PM > To: Susan Zeigler > Cc: Policy at Arin. Net > Subject: RE: IP Space > > > > Susan: > > I mean no disrespect but that is not current possible in IIS 4 or IIS 5.o. > There is no way to make an instance of a site in IIS 4 or 5 use SSL with the > same IP, IIS blocks it with an error message. Thus, it DOES hold lots of > water! > > AveHost.com Staff > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > 201-840-7311 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Zeigler [mailto:susan at lh.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:06 PM > To: Policy at Arin. Net > Cc: info at avehost.com; Ted Pavlic > Subject: Re: IP Space > > > Ah, but that argument doesn't hold much water. From what my enterprise-level > clients tell me, SSL can be configured just fine to handle multiple sites on > a > single IP. I have several that do this with great results. It is much easier > to > handle and manage too, just like host-header vs. virtual IP. > > "AveHost.com Staff" wrote: > > > Ted: > > > > Just keep in mind that you will still need IP's for those customers that > > want and need to use SSL, which is currently about half of our customers. > > You see, ARIN is effectively restricting ecommerce whether they realize it > > or not by limiting IP allocations for hosting. Congratulations ARIN, the > > NEW Economy's development just might be slowed! This almost smells like > an > > old KGB clandestine operation to stifle the West's progress! > > > > AveHost.com Staff > > AveHost.com, a service of RegSearch International > > 201-840-7311 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: policy-request at arin.net [mailto:policy-request at arin.net]On Behalf > > Of Ted Pavlic > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 1:43 PM > > To: policy at arin.net; RTS > > Subject: Re: IP Space > > > > http://www.arin.net/announcements/name_based_hosting.html > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > All the best -- > > Ted > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "RTS" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 8:00 PM > > Subject: IP Space > > > > > I saw on Arin's page last week or so a link to both Microsoft and Apache > > > pages for help on named based virtual hosting. > > > > > > Does anyone know where that is?? > > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > >