Let us all bend over, apply the Vaseline...

[Michael Dillon]

On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Bob Atkins wrote:

> While ARIN will supposedly not be handling IPv6 space I am not
> convinced that it won't once IPv6 address space comes into use.  With
> IPv6 ARIN will have an enormous pool of address space. The annual
> recurring fees generated based on the proposed amounts would be
> criminal for a non-profit organization.

The fees charged by ARIN will be under regular review and will be adjusted
downwards when it becomes clear that they are not needed to run the
organization.

> Besides my argument is simple - *Who* decided to create ARIN and why
> isn't such a function put up for bid on a recurring basis?

Why isn't the Cancer Society or the IEEE put up for bid on a recurring
basis? Both are non-profit organizations run by their members. Probably
because the members don't want to do it that way, but if they ever *DID*
want to do it that way, it could be done. Since ARIN hasn't even started
operations yet, there is nothing recurring that can be put up for bid.

> Consider the way ethernet addresses are doled out. A manufacturer
> applies for a block - pays a *one time* nominal fee and thats it. 

The Ethernet MAC address space is considerably larger than the IPv4
address space and it does not need to interoperate in real time on a
global basis using routers that are near the limit of their capacity.
Read up on CIDR and why it is needed to keep the Internet from collapsing.

> Or
> consider the way telephone numbers are handled - a one time fee to
> Bellcore and bang you have 10,000 numbers. 

ARIN could do this too. The bottom line is that ARIN needs enough income
in one year to cover its costs. If you think it would be better to jack up
the fees for address allocations so that the people who get allocations in
any one year also finance all of ARIN, then you are welcome to make your
case to the membership. I don't think they would agree that this is a good
idea, however.

> The entire concept of leasing
> IP address space is so open to potential abuse it just isn't funny.

That's why the practice of leasing or selling address space is frowned
upon by IANA and by the registries, RIPE, APNIC and ARIN.

> What is more absurd about all of this is the fact that ARIN would not
> be in control of the Routing Arbiter's database so in effect they would
> simply be responsible for in-arpa services and thats all. So how do they
> intend to enforce their annual fees. Turn off in-arpa services? While
> that would be inconvenient it certainly wouldn't stop things from
> working.

ARIN doesn't intend to enforce anything. It is not a government. It is not
an army. It is not a police force. ARIN allocates addresses based on a
policy that the global Internet community has agreed upon. If someone
doesn't pay their fees that will be public knowledge and it will be up to
the Internet community to enforce the policy. I do know that the major
ISPs filter route announcements to make sure that someone is not
announcing address space that doesn't belong to them.

> outright. As fas as I'm concerned IP space is like radio spectrum. It
> is a finite resource and it should be managed in such a way as to
> ensure equitable and fair access to address space to both large and
> small businesses.  

That is one of the main goals of ARIN and the other IP registries.

> I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to paying in some form for
> universal resources. The problem is that larger more well funded
> businesses can easily outbid the smaller guys.

That's why ARIN does not put up address space for auction and does not
allow ISPs to sell address space to others. A major ISP can get a large
allocation only because they have agreed to allocate smaller blocks of
space to the organizations who connect to them.

> However, what
> I am seeing in both the domain name registery and now the IP regsitery
> is this concept of centralization instead of diversification. 

I'm not sure why you see centralization here. There are currently three IP
registries in the world, RIPE, APNIC and the Internic. After ARIN gets off
the ground there will still be three registries, RIPE, APNIC and ARIN.
One of the things ARIN will be doing is helping the South Americans and
the Africans to spin off their own IP registries to make a total of five
IP registries, each serving a continent-sized area. So ARIN is actually
part of a decentralization plan in that respect.

But there's more. Right now the Internic IP registry is basically run by a
private company (no publicly traded shares) with no possibility for any
input from ISPs or users of IPv4 address space. By moving it into a
non-profit organization we will be achieving a decentralization of
control. Anyone who wishes can become a voting member of this
organization. Its activities will take place in the public eye and
mailing lists like this one will be available so that even non-members can
have some input into ARIN decisions. This is far better than the current
state of affairs with the Internic.

Michael Dillon                   -               Internet & ISP Consulting
http://www.memra.com             -               E-mail: michael at memra.com

The bottom line is track record.  Not track tearing.  Not track derailing.
But pounding the damn dirt around the track with the rest of us worms.
       -- Randy Bush