Rebuttal to Mr. Weisberg's insinuations

[Jim Fleming]

On Saturday, July 19, 1997 10:46 AM, Robert T. Nelson[SMTP:rnelson at internoc.com] wrote:
@ On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Larry Vaden wrote:
@ > At 11:27 AM 7/19/97 -0500, Robert T. Nelson wrote:
@ > >
@ > >If you want a network that can be governed in a democratic fashion, you
@ > >have to *design that into the network*
@ > 
@ > BRAVO!
@ 
@ I suspect, though from the speed of your response, that maybe you miss
@ some of what I am driving at. The point to the comment above, is that
@ current IPv4 networking is non-democratic. It is perhaps at once both
@ heirarchically dictatorial, and anarchic. Given those premises, you cannot
@ expect to "democratically govern" the resources in the network. Instead
@ you have to do your best (if you want the network to grow and succeed) to
@ participate within that non-demcratic framework to design next-generation
@ systems that are more inherently democratic, and governable. 
@ 
@ The network architecture defines the politics of the people using it.
@ 

Actually, I have found that the education about the network
is largely controlled by the people that want to dictate the
resource allocations. Via education, these structures can
be changed.

One of the problems in the Internet is that the people that
can help the most at this time...(lawyers, business people,
marketing people, etc.)...do not have the technical depth
to not be derailed by some irrelevant F.U.D. argument.

If the forums are moved more to a dollars and cents discussion
then there might be more of a common understanding. For
example:

	1. What are the costs of renumbering ?
	2. What are the costs of writing up Internic proposals
		that get approved ?
	3. What is the market value for a /16 ?
	4. What is the economic benefit to a State or Country to
		operate an IP registry ?
	5. What is the value of locating and recycling an IPv4 block ?
		What is an ISP willing to pay for a "used" block ?
	6. What is the cost/benefit analysis of two or three NSPs
		helping to bring better aggregation to the IPv4 space ?
		Will ISPs beat a path to their door ?
	7. What is the cost of managing a public registry for a /8 ?
		Are companies willing to do this on a for-profit basis ?

Note: The cost of router memory is not above....

@ On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Gordon Cook wrote:
@ 
@ > so what are you going to do?  design and build a united nations like
@ > bureaucracy with proprtional representation from everywhere on earth we
@ > can have every one debate and come out with a truly "representative"
@ > solution for ip allocation policy?
@ 
@ My point exactly. My other point being that if you DO want this, you're
@ not likely to squeeze it out of current IP networking standards. You're
@ going to need to design that management capability into the network.
@ 
@ On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Stan Barber wrote:
@ 
@ > It is important to remember that the core technology of the Internet was
@ > designed to meet millitary objectives, not democratic ones. Careful 
@ > steps should be used to move from one setup of design objectives to
@ > another.
@ 
@ 
@ Since this is the case, there are some arbitrary decisions that must
@ be made. At the moment IANA makes most of those, but not before seeking
@ advice from net.leaders. In the case of ARIN, RFC 1466 states that IANA
@ has essentially arbitrary power to accept a proposal to start a Registry.
@ This is built into the design of the network.
@ 
@ The net.leaders at InterNIC RS made a proposal to IANA to form ARIN. IANA
@ has accepted it, NSF has accepted it. The leaders of ARIN are attempting
@ to make sure that the individuals and organizations who wish to have a
@ serious say in IP address allocations have an opportunity to do so, while
@ not disrupting mission-critical business at hand by doing so. 
@ 
@ If ARIN is not what you want to see, I suggest that you prepare a proposal
@ that net.leaders are willing to sign on, and present that to IANA. If you
@ succeed in this, I would bet IANA would listen. 
@ 

I suggest that a proposal be prepared and presented to
all of the Root Name Server Confederations. They control
where .ARPA is referred and ultimately have to make a
decision about how the global Internet is managed. The
IANA is part of the ISOC which is one of many private,
non-profit companies. They have a vote as a Root Name
Server Confederation, but not the only vote.

--
Jim Fleming
Unir Corporation