Global council of registries??? (fwd)

Tue Apr 29 13:55:35 EDT 1997

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:20:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gordon Cook <cook at netaxs.com>
To: naipr at arin.net
Subject: Re: Global council of registries??? (fwd)

If what  follows did get distributed to naipr at arin.net, please accept my
apologies.  I have been watching for it and haven't seen it.  Although i
must say that michael dillon is far more civil in his discourse than I  -
and  I commend himfor his civility - I want my commments  to rudolph geist
to be on public record.  In my opinion the man has completely discredited
himself as someone with any claim to speak for a serious ISP trade
association.  kim hubbards comment this morning i believe further
substantiates my point of view.

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:47:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gordon Cook <cook at netaxs.com>
To: "Rudolph J. Geist" <rgeist at wahl.com>
Cc: naipr at arin.net
Subject: Re: Global council of registries???

Question for Paul Ferguson. Internic has not changed its stated rules in
the last 12 months for getting allocations directly from it has it? They
have guide lines spelled out in an RFC. 2050 or some other? They follow
the guidelines which were arrived at on the CIDRD list....very much in
public.

Did Genuity get address space directly from Kim H. I think they did. Am I
wrong? How about Verio? Or Exodus?

Rudy to Phil nesser: Just ask any small or mid-sized company that has
requested address space in the past 9 months, no matter how much money is
behind the company, or what kind of business plans they have.  They all
get the same runaround from Internic.  Internic states that a company may
only obtain address space if it has a history of efficiently utilizing
IPs. 

Cook: Wrong. They can get less than a prefix 19. When they go back for
more blocks they must show efficient utilization./

Rudy:  But how the heck can you have a history if you can't get any from
Internic? 

Cook: wrong they can.

Rudy:  The response to this question is not that these ISPS should get it
from their upstream provider - and be subject to later renumbering - or
the loss of the IPs during a merger or buy-out, or any other such case.

Cook: yes for maybe two years renumbering is a fact of life. The response
had been unless you can justify a prefix 19 get it from your upstream. Oh
you want it from us anyway. Well heres a 22. Good luck on finding a
provider who will route it. AGIS one of your charter members has been a
more brutal enforcer of IP number non portatbility thatn any other.   Ask
Karl Denninger.

Cook: You better learn something about BGP routing Rudy. Hole punched in
CIDR blocs increase the size of routing announcements at the defaultless
core of the net. On Friday there was a burp of some 30,000 routes onto the
core. A flap started and took over two hours to stablize after the
originating network was disconnected. That has never happened before. The
larger the number of routes in the defaultless core the more difficult
this stuff is to recover from. The engineers like Paul Ferguson do know
what they hell they are talking about. You have a helluva lot to learn
besides flemings conspiracy theories before you shold expect people to
take you or your association seriously. Go on inet-access and ask there
whether the ISPs are upset because they get ip number from their
upstreams. You will find them far better educated to reality that you.
As paul told you there *ARE* some physical realities involved in scaling
the net. There have been compromises made but they have been made in the
open and not behind closed doors....   Get a few clues...then call kim....
I bet she'll sit down with you. As for jon postell I'd like to hear that
story directly from him.

Rudoplh: USIPA is of the position that this debate needs to be made more
public, so that more people in the Internet industry have some clue what
decisions are being made by such a small group of Industry representatives
- for the future of the entire industry.

Cook who is usipa?   Who sets policy? Are you its official spokesman?
This debate has been made in the public..... Starting even before the ARIN
bof at the san jose ietf.   And carried on in public mail lists since
then. Where were you?

Rudolph:  You laugh off with your little sarcasm the suggestion that a
council be established such as that of the NANC - and at the same time you
boast your varied and vast experience as an Internet industry expert.
Did you ever realize why every single one of the 5,000 plus IXCs and
LECs in this country have databases of hundreds of millions of
functioning telephone numbers?  And they don't have to fight with Kim
Hubbard to get addresses.

Cook: An extremely ignorant statement for you to make. Do you understand
the different between the PSTN and the internet? Between a connection
oriented and connectionless network? Do you understand that the telephone
industry grew to its size over a period of the past century? That the
telcos had lenty of time to install switches that could support lots of
numbers with none of the routing / router problems that the internet has
had during this period where it has grown percentagewise in five years
about what he telephne industry has grwon in the past 50. There are sound
technical reasons why the ISP has to go to Kim and your damned fool USIPA
won't be able to do a damned thing about a single one of these reasons.
Educate yourself and then come back and talk.

Rudolph:  Now, the small group who are representing the industry are
proposing to extend this dominance over to ARIN, with the same people
involved.

Cook: they are proposing to make ARIN totally responsible to the ISPs it
serves.

Rudolph:  USIPA's members apologize to you for their concern - especially
those who have no IP allocations and are forced to rely on upstream
providers. They really did not mean to upset you.

Cook..... A fact of life for most isps for the past 2 years and one that
they are no longer bitching about....what you seem to think was done in
smoke filled rooms has been done quite in public over the last three
years.....where in the hell were you? Go on Inet access and preach your
stuff...lets see what kind of a reception you get there? You have
certainly blown every shred of credibility you may have had here.

I am leaving for a consulting assignment tomorrow and will likely be off
net until Friday. So in the mean time have fun chasing your conspiracies.

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The COOK Report on Internet               For subsc. pricing & more than
431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA     ten megabytes of free material
(609) 882-2572 (phone & fax)              visit   http://cookreport.com/
Internet: cook at cookreport.com             On line speech of critics under
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