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<p>Hi</p>
<p>Out of business of passing around smaller blocks ? Something ARIN
or each RIR has always done while they existed.<br>
There is nothing to be done around wailing list other than
restrict to newcomers. Then those who already have something stop
expecting to get something extra and live with what they have or
transfer more blocks from the market. Perhaps lowering
expectations to receive something will lower what looks to be an
anger for not getting it. The issue in my view more expectations
than practical reality.</p>
<p>The fact IPV4 has value in the market should not be of the
business of a RIR. These resources don't belong to one that has
the right to sell for whatever they like. They are there to serve
internet development in the region and as such neutral and fair
policies govern the way they are assigned on a first come, first
serve basis. Isn't reasonable that those who existed so far learn
how to live with their existing assignments and leave this tiny
rest for newcomers to have a chance to exist in the internet ?</p>
<p>By the way, 4.10 and waiting list, even for newcomers still are
for different proposes. At some point 4.10 should be returned,
waiting list resources not.</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/28/2026 12:26 PM, Eric C.
Landgraf wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20261028152653.eccb5xaieu6vgwty@bicycle">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">The somewhat obscured reason for discussions about getting rid of the
waiting list: a substantial portion of what we hear each meeting in the
policy experience report are the problems ARIN faces with administering
current IPv4 policy. 4.10 is subject to abuse, 4.4 is underutilized, and
the incentives around 4.1.8 waitlist space are somewhat misdirected.
So how do we get ARIN out of the business of passing around smaller and
smaller blocks of IPv4, when IPv6 has been the current version of the
internet protocol for years?
If IPv4 is a cost center for us as an RIR, but also has relatively high
value on the open market, why *shouldn't* we dispose of it in a way that
increases that value while providing revenue? 4.10 space is there for
small operators that actually need IPv4 space for operations, provided
they are also working to deploy IPv6: if you aren't transitioning to
IPv6 as a small operator, you ought to feel the cost of that decision.
Getting rid of "free" addresses from the waitlist is the easiest knob we
can turn *in policy* to force people to do that math.
If we were to dispose of 4.4 and/or 4.10 space, I would agree with you
that the waitlist should only be for newcomers. But as things stand,
those newcomers have many ways to get IPv4, so long as they jump thru
some hoops.
Regards,
Eric C. Landgraf
Virginia Tech
On Oct 27 11:14, Fernando Frediani wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">Hi
ARIN auctioning off IPv4 is something unthinkable for a RIR. I don't even
understand how people come up with these ideas. RIRs are not brokers and are
never meant to be anything like that.
I believe the whole issue around waiting list is that people ... have to
wait. And they don't want to. Some believe that if putting money on the
table they can get a fastpass in front of others and get what they need.
But Numbering Resources managed by a RIR are a shared resource and was never
meant to be treated as a private asset, but to serve the internet community
from that region and as such should be assigned to those who need and have
justification to receive them, regardless of their economical power.
Waitling list is a natural and the fairest thing to do with recovered
addresses, even though it can be a long wait, at least they go to those who
have the most right both because they can justify the need under the current
policy and also because they have been patiently waiting in the list. What
else one would expect to be ?
I find hard to believe that people expect the waiting list resources to be
the salvation to their internet business (those who have some resources
already).
I am personally of the opinion that waiting list should assign space only to
newcomers, therefore those who have nothing to begin with as in other RIRs
like LACNIC. Those who have something have means for revenue to acquire a
block later when necessary.
But until that change just leave the waiting list as it is to keep the most
fair way to allocate that IP space.
Regards
Fernando
On 10/27/2026 10:09 AM, Jones, Brian wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">At ARIN 58 the NRPM Working Group introduced this table topic and garnered a bit of discussion about the community’s thoughts concerning the Waitlist. Posting here for broader exposure and to solicit more community feedback.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Table Topic - If the Waitlist didn’t exist, what would?
Discussions about how ARIN would handle the return of IP address space became a central topic.
There was much discussion around auctioning off IPv4 addresses after that topic was brought up. It was pointed out that there are legal and ethical issues to consider for what ARIN would do with and resources from this. There was discussion about how the money would be used if such a decision was made to auction off IPv4 address space.
It was expressed that no new policy would have to replace the Waitlist, that by default ARIN would continue allocate IPv4 address space out of section 4.4 and 4.10 of the NRPM and that IPv4 resources would be replenished with any returned or reclaimed resources to the reserved pools as is indicated by the NRPM.
There were also discussions about combining sections 4.4 and 4.10 of the NRPM and removing the Waitlist while also relaxing the requirement for acquiring these resources concerning transitioning to IPv6. Relaxing the requirement from you must have an IPv6 transition plan to acquire any resources from this space to something like “with preference given for those transitions to IPv6”. The hard requirement for transitioning to IPv6 was brought up as an impediment for those who may not have the money for purchasing newer network equipment to support IPv6 and at least in some Caribbean regions it may take the local government involvement before network operators can even consider moving toward IPv6. This was expressed at a previous table topic discussion at ARIN 56 I believe.
At least one participant asked if it was possible for ARIN to provide a report on where waitlist allocations go after they are fulfilled. Specifically, do they go to small ISPs, wind up in the market for leasing, or elsewhere?
It was also mentioned that if an entity has a viable business plan that requires IPv4 then they should have included the cost for purchasing or leasing those resources because the Waitlist has no guarantees for available IPv4 resources, so does there remain any reason to maintain a Waitlist becomes the question.
_________________________________________________________________________________
_
Brian Jones
ARIN Advisory Council
NRPM WG Chair
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