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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Matthew,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That’s a reasonable question.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Considering the sizes at issue here, the costs of creating and maintaining an account at a foreign registry can be a high fraction of the IPv4 purchase cost, and so it would be unusual for any small ARIN account holder to prefer the costs and burdens of multiple registry accounts.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The example examined the case of a small ARIN company requiring a /24 for overseas use, and being forced to register that /24 at RIPE, whose initial membership fee and ongoing fees for a /24 can quickly double the cost of that /24 to that small ARIN company, to say nothing of the administrative burdens or the loss of revenue to ARIN. This is an actual real example and we were forced by the policy to address the user’s need in this expensive manner. This policy would have avoided that.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>It is actually not unusual for larger companies to have RIR accounts at multiple registries and there is nothing nefarious about it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matthew Cowen via ARIN-PPML<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 18, 2026 8:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> ARIN PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Request for Comment & Feedback: Draft Policy ARIN-2025-3: Change Section 9 Out Of Region Use Minimum Criteria<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Quick question. The “At issue” statement says: <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>"<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Most of these recipients would much rather keep everything together in one ARIN account instead of having to go to another registry."</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Is the use of ‘most’ based on survey data or something else? To me, it seems important to determine whether or not there is a real quantified need. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I’d support the overall idea of the policy (although not as currently proposed), but I think it should be unambiguous with respect to who and how many are demanding this, and also potential for abuse, as highlighted. There is a local case with Orange Caraïbes, the caribbean entity of Orange France, with a mish-mash of resources from ARIN/RIPE! Possibly other FWI/France operators too.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 17 Mar 2026, at 04:54, Gerry E.. George <<a href="mailto:ggeorge@digisolv.com">ggeorge@digisolv.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hello & Good day to PPML Community.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>As assigned shepherds, Matthew Wilder & myself are seeking feedback & comments on the current version of the Draft Policy ARIN-2025-3: Change Section 9 Out Of Region Use Minimum Criteria.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I have summarized the key points below, but the full policy can be accessed here:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2025_3/">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2025_3/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>ARIN-prop-341 (ARIN-2025-3) - <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Change Section 9 Out Of Region Use Minimum Criteria</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In brief: </span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Section 9 of the NRPM, Out of Region Use, requires organizations to use at least a /22 in the ARIN region before they can justify out of region use. This harms smaller organizations that have less than a /22 in region but do require some out of region use.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Proposal:</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Modify the following text in Section 9:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>FROM: IPv4: At least a /22 used in region.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>TO: IPv4: At least a /24 used in region.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p style='margin:0in'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>RESULT</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Out of region use of ARIN registered resources are valid justification for additional number resources, provided that the applicant has a real and substantial connection with the ARIN region which applicant must prove (as described below) and is using the same type of resources (with a delegation lineage back to an ARIN allocation or assignment) within the ARIN service region as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>IPv4: At least a /24 used in region<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>IPv6: At least a /44 used in region<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>ASN: At least one ASN present on one or more peering sessions and/or routers within the region <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>At issue:</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>When a company needs address space outside of the ARIN region without at least a /22 in region, they go to RIPE and acquire either PI or Legacy space (the least expensive option), often acquiring the space from ARIN sources.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In the case of an inter-regional ARIN to RIPE transfer, RIPE does require the recipient to demonstrate need, as required by ARIN. ARIN is losing registration of the block and annual fees, as well as the recipient transfer fee. Most of these recipients would much rather keep everything together in one ARIN account instead of having to go to another registry.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>While there are no material legal issues, it is anticipated that this change in policy would significantly increase the volume of IPv4 waitlist requests and could lead to an increase to staff ticket workload.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Because the policy requirements for an organization to justify an initial /24 are generally straightforward to meet, it is expected that more organizations may request a /24 primarily to qualify for additional ARIN-issued IPv4 addresses for out-of-region use. It is expected that this would result in more ARIN IPv4 space being used out of region.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p style='margin:0in'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Concern regarding possible abuse of the reduced requirement in order to obtain ARIN resources, particularly for blocks larger than the minimum (/24) for OOR use.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Considerations</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>- How much of an issue could this be? Does it matter to the community?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>- Should there be a requirement for the OOR use be not more/greater than the in-ARIN region use? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>- Can this unfavorably impact companies having more growth OOR, and drive them to other RIRs and away from ARIN in such instances?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>- Is there a probability for potential abuse via the Waitlist, and if so, should there be consideration for limitations to the designated region use for 4.1.8. requests?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>- Is the "real and substantial connection" requirement in Section 9 be sufficient to prohibit or reduce the potential for abuse?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Questions:</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Are you in support of the policy?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Are there any additional issues which should be considered?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Should the AC continue working on the policy as written?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p style='margin:0in'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>And remember, the ARIN public policy process runs on positive consensus not silent assent, so please weigh in. We look forward to your engagement.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Gerry E. George</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br>ICT Consultant and Business Solutions Architect;</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Digi</span></strong><em><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Solv</span></b></em><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>, Inc.</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> [P.O. Box 1677, Castries, Saint Lucia] </span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white;font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;text-decoration-style: initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>—<br>My best/Cordialement,<br><br>Matthew Cowen<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>