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I would agree that “at a local level” doesn’t make sense in the context of (some) ISPs. Its a tautological statement. What was the thinking for including that specific phrase, in case I’m missing something?
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<div>With regards to the "and/or” statement, I think Eric was highlighting that it was written as “and\or” in the proposal and it should be / and not \.</div>
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<div>Other than these things, I support the proposal.<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
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<div>On 7 Mar 2026, at 11:34, Douglas Camin <doug@dougcamin.com> wrote:</div>
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+1 to Eric’s change to LIR definition and +1 to Owen’s suggestion to drop “at a local level” from the revision for the reason’s both suggested.</div>
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So revised would be: </div>
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"A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that is a member of an RIR which receives allocations of internet numbers from that RIR for allocation to its customers, end-users, and infrastructure.</div>
<pre style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">On the second point, I see Eric’s point, but I think Owen’s comment is accurate and the wording does not need to change.</div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></div><div style="direction: ltr; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Doug</div></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Douglas J. Camin</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">doug@dougcamin.com</p>
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<b>From: </b>ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, March 7, 2026 at 10:18 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Eric C. Landgraf <echarlie@vt.edu><br>
<b>Cc: </b>arin-ppml@arin.net <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Revised - Draft Policy ARIN-2025-1: Clarify ISP and LIR Definitions and References to Address Ambiguity in NRPM Text<br>
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> On Mar 6, 2026, at 11:07, Eric C. Landgraf <echarlie@vt.edu> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 12:55:47 -0500 ARIN wrote:<br>
>> Section 2:<br>
>><br>
>> Rewrite the LIR definition to provide clarity and relationship to ISP<br>
>><br>
>> 2.4. Local Internet Registry (LIR)<br>
>><br>
>> A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that is a member of an RIR,<br>
>> receives allocations of internet numbers from that RIR, for allocation<br>
>> to its customers, end-users, and infrastructure, at a local level.<br>
>> LIRs include Internet Service Providers (ISPs) whose customers are<br>
>> primarily end users and possibly other ISPs. Historically in the ARIN<br>
>> service region "ISP" was used as an equivalent, albeit incomplete,<br>
>> term.<br>
><br>
> The wording of this section is awkward, as the first sentence is<br>
> incomplete. I suggest modifying it to read:<br>
> "A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that is a member of an RIR<br>
> which receives allocations of internet numbers from that RIR for<br>
> allocation to its customers, end-users, and infrastructure at a local<br>
> level."<br>
<br>
“At a local level” is an interesting choice of words here given that some LIRs are more global than the RIR they are receiving addresses from.<br>
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It doesn’t really add meaning to the policy, so I suggest dropping that phrase altogether.<br>
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><br>
>> 2.18 Internet Service Provider (ISP)<br>
>><br>
>> An Internet Service Provider (ISP) is a type of organization that<br>
>> provides Internet services to other organizations, its customers,<br>
>> and\or individuals other than its employees. Internet services<br>
>> include, but are not limited to, connectivity services, web services,<br>
>> colocation, dedicated servers, virtual private servers, and virtual<br>
>> private networks.<br>
><br>
> This should be corrected with "and/or", though in this community "or"<br>
> may be sufficient.<br>
<br>
Disagree. “Include but are not limited to” eliminates the need for “or” since any item is included in the list, but not mandated by the and.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
> Otherwise, I support this policy. I think this cleans up the PPML<br>
> substantially.<br>
><br>
> Eric C. Landgraf<br>
> Virginia Tech<br>
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My best/Cordialement,<br>
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Matthew Cowen<br>
matthew@dgtlfutures.com</div>
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