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<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Hello everyone,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Thank you for the
continued thoughtful discussion on this draft policy. The core challenge is
balancing <span style="font-weight:bold">global precision</span> (the “LIR”
term of art) with <span style="font-weight:bold">regional accessibility and
consistency</span> (the “ISP” label used in ARIN’s operations and
documentation).</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">A practical example
of how this balance is handled elsewhere comes from the DNS community. Both
ICANN and the IETF distinguish between <span style="font-weight:bold">“authoritative
name server”</span> (precise, technical role) and the broader term <span style="font-weight:bold">“name server” or “DNS server”</span> (commonly used in
general documentation). For example:</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<ul type="disc" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:embed;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in">
<li style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;vertical-align:middle"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">ICANN’s glossary provides a
specific definition of “authoritative name server.” </span></li>
</ul>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0in 0.375in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/authoritative-name-server-en?utm_source=chatgpt.com#:~:text=A-,authoritative%20name%20server,-A%20Domain%20Name">https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/authoritative-name-server-en?utm_source=chatgpt.com#:~:text=A-,authoritative%20name%20server,-A%20Domain%20Name</a></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0in 0.375in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<ul type="disc" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:embed;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in">
<li style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;vertical-align:middle"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">IETF </span><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9499/"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">RFC 9499</span></a><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> notes that both authoritative servers and
resolvers are “often called DNS servers or name servers, even though they
serve different roles.”</span></li>
</ul>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9499/?utm_source=chatgpt.com#:~:text=often%20called%0A%20%20%20%22DNS%20servers%22%20and%20%22name%20servers%22%20even%20though%20they%20serve%20different%0A%20%20%20roles">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9499/?utm_source=chatgpt.com#:~:text=often%20called%0A%20%20%20%22DNS%20servers%22%20and%20%22name%20servers%22%20even%20though%20they%20serve%20different%0A%20%20%20roles</a></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">This model works
because the precise role is rigorously defined, while the common terminology
remains usable for general understanding.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">I suggest ARIN adopt
a similar dual-term approach:</p>
<ol type="1" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:embed;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">
<li value="1" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;vertical-align:middle"><span style="font-size:11pt">In NRPM text:</span><span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:11pt"> Use “ISP (LIR)” on first reference
in sections, then “ISP” with the clarified meaning.</span></li>
<li style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;vertical-align:middle"><span style="font-size:11pt">Glossary
definition:</span><span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:11pt"> Add an NRPM glossary entry: </span><span style="font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-size:11pt">“ISP: For the purposes of this document, ISP is
equivalent to Local Internet Registry (LIR).”</span></li>
<li style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;vertical-align:middle"><span style="font-size:11pt">Operational
consistency:</span><span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:11pt"> Continue using “ISP” in templates, guides, and ARIN’s
website, backed by the clarified definition.</span></li>
</ol>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">This approach
addresses the ambiguity directly. It acknowledges the global standard (LIR)
while respecting ARIN’s established conventions (ISP), ensuring the policy is
both precise for experts and accessible to newcomers.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Would the authors
and community be open to incorporating this kind of dual-term definition into
the draft policy text?</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Best regards,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Mohibul Mahmud</p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 20, 2025 at 10:32 PM Jon Lewis <<a href="mailto:jlewis@lewis.org">jlewis@lewis.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Fri, 19 Sep 2025, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
<br>
> Please explain what is confusing about the current usage of both LIR and ISP?<br>
> The following Blog post from ARIN seems perfectly straightforward to me;<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/blog/2023/02/28/ISP-or-end-user/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/blog/2023/02/28/ISP-or-end-user/</a><br>
> <br>
> And the following page is about Requesting IP addresses.<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/request/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/request/</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> They both seem to address the idea that LIR and ISP are effectively the same thing.<br>
<br>
Just a week ago, I asked if someone could give examples of how an ARIN <br>
member could be an LIR and not be an ISP, and was told "there are ways".<br>
<br>
The page referenced above is confusing, because it simultaneously says ISP <br>
= LIR and LIR != ISP. If an LIR is "generally" an ISP, then that suggests <br>
there are circumstances in which an LIR is not an ISP.<br>
<br>
>From the page:<br>
<br>
Let’s start by defining the elephant in the room: Local Internet Registry<br>
(LIR). In short, an LIR is an Internet Service Provider (ISP). As defined<br>
in ARIN’s Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM):<br>
<br>
“A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that primarily assigns address<br>
space to the users of the network services that it provides. LIRs are<br>
generally Internet Service Providers (ISPs), whose customers are<br>
primarily end users and possibly other ISPs.”<br>
<br>
You may find that ARIN and many members of the community use ISP and LIR<br>
interchangeably in conversation. So, when someone says “ISP,” you can<br>
think of that as “ISP/LIR.”<br>
<br>
So, which is it? ISP and LIR are the same thing, or all ISPs with direct <br>
allocations can be LIRs (but don't have to be), but not all LIRs are ISPs?<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route<br>
Blue Stream Fiber, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are<br>
_________ <a href="http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp</a> for PGP public key________________________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>