<div><br></div><div dir="auto">A ballpark cost estimate would be helpful.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 15:42 David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Doug,<div><br></div><div>While I agree that expenses should not be the first consideration when evaluating policy, at least usually.</div><div><br></div><div>Nevertheless, the staff and legal review for this policy, dated June 3rd, warns, "Proper implementation will require significant investment to determine the full extent of the legal, operational, and compliance adaptations necessary, as well as determining resulting implementation cost."</div><div><br></div><div>That raises a serious question about what this policy would cost, and not just the simple expense of it, but also the legal, operational, and compliance consequences to the organization. Those can be boiled down to expenses, but from a policy perspective, those are more than just expenses, and the consideration of those consequences becomes central to evaluating this policy.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 1:44 PM Douglas Camin <<a href="mailto:doug@dougcamin.com" target="_blank">doug@dougcamin.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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I think the intent is to suggest that the community first focus on the merits of the policy ahead the costs. This does not mean cost is never a consideration, but at this juncture - this draft policy is brand new and only received an early staff and legal because
of its legal implications - the questions to the community revolve around “is this good policy or not."</div>
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Hope that helps - </div>
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<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Douglas J. Camin</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:doug@dougcamin.com" target="_blank">doug@dougcamin.com</a></p>
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<b>From: </b>Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, July 11, 2025 at 1:31 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>arin-ppml <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>, Douglas Camin <<a href="mailto:doug@dougcamin.com" target="_blank">doug@dougcamin.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2025-4: Resource Issuance to Natural Persons -- Request for Feedback<br>
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<div>I wholeheartedly disagree. If the benefits of the policy change don’t exceed the costs, it’s not good policy. I’m not convinced we haven’t already wasted more of our collective time discussing this
policy than will ever be saved by the small number of individuals who’d benefit from it (those who can’t easily apply as sole proprietors).</div>
<div><br>
-Scott</div>
<div>On Jul 11, 2025 at 9:43 AM -0700, Douglas Camin <<a href="mailto:doug@dougcamin.com" target="_blank">doug@dougcamin.com</a>>, wrote:<br>
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Xavier - </div>
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Appreciate the feedback and question. When considering policy, it’s encouraged to consider the policy exclusively on the merits and not on cost. If it’s good policy, it should be implemented and if not, it should be abandoned. This keeps us focused on whether
policy is sound or not. A sound policy can be expensive, and an unsound one can be cheap. </div>
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Hope that helps, though I know it doesn’t directly answer your question - we’d love to get your feedback on your views on what we should do with the policy. </div>
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Thanks!</div>
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--</div>
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Douglas J. Camin</div>
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ARIN Advisory Council</div>
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<a href="mailto:doug@dougcamin.com" target="_blank">doug@dougcamin.com</a></div>
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<b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of Xavier via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<b>Date:</b> Thursday, July 10, 2025 at 8:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Elizabeth Goodson <<a href="mailto:elizabeth.goodson@gmail.com" target="_blank">elizabeth.goodson@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a> <<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2025-4: Resource Issuance to Natural Persons -- Request for Feedback<br>
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<div>My feedback on this policy depends on what the "implementation cost" (referenced in the last paragraph of the Legal Review section) will be. Making it easier to access resources is probably worth
$10,000 but is probably not worth $250,000, IMO. Do we have a ballpark estimate?</div>
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Thank you,<br>
Xavier Clark</div>
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<div>On Thursday, July 10th, 2025 at 7:27 PM, Elizabeth Goodson <<a href="mailto:elizabeth.goodson@gmail.com" target="_blank">elizabeth.goodson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Hello PPML,</div>
<div><br>
I'm shepherding this policy along with Doug Camin. We're seeking direction from the community as to how the AC should proceed with this policy. There was robust conversation on PPML in late May and early June, which tapered off quickly after the ARIN Staff
and Legal analysis was published.</div>
<div><br>
<a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2025_4/#staff-and-legal-review-3-june-2025" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2025_4/#staff-and-legal-review-3-june-2025</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Should we<br>
- abandon this policy,<br>
- accept this policy as written, or<br>
- continue to revise this policy?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>We appreciate your feedback.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Liz Goodson</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g">2218 University Ave SE</a> Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div>
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