<div dir="ltr">We need to take a step back, there are several different usages for the term Organization in the NRPM<div><br></div><div>- An organization in the ARIN database records the entity to which allocations, reassignments, and reallocations are made. For reassessments and reallocations, natural persons not operating a business are valid.</div><div>- By definition, an organization receiving direct allocations from ARIN is a service member and is eligible to request to become a general member with voting rights. However, membership is controlled by Article V of the Bylaws, not the NRPM.</div><div><br></div><div>So what does Article V say;</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>ARTICLE V: Membership</div><div>Section 1. Membership Types</div><div>The membership of ARIN shall have three classes of members: Trustee Members, General Members, and Service Members.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>a. Trustee Members</div><div>Trustees are individuals who may be, but are not required to be, Service Members, General Members or representatives of General Members, as defined below. Trustee Members shall consist of ARIN’s elected and appointed individuals to the Board of Trustees and the President of ARIN, hereafter known and referred to as Trustees.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>b. General Members</div><div>General Members shall consist of entities wishing to participate in Internet number resource policy development that have a valid ARIN registration services agreement (RSA or LRSA) for Internet number resources, and that meet any eligibility requirements and pay subscription fees or membership fees as the Trustees may establish from time to time.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>c. Service Members</div><div>Service Members shall consist of entities that have a valid ARIN registration services agreement (RSA or LRSA) for Internet number resources, that pay subscription fees or membership fees as the Trustees may establish from time to time, and that either do not have an interest in participation as a General Member or do not meet the eligibility requirements established by the Board of Trustees for General Members. Service Members do not have the right to vote in ARIN elections.</div><div><br></div></blockquote>Article V.a is clear: Trustees are individuals. However, it seems to imply that those individuals could also be Service or General Members, not just representatives of Service or General Members.<div><br></div><div>Therefore, this implies that individuals could also be Service or General Members, and it says nothing about excluding individuals who do not operate a business.</div><div><br></div><div>Further, Article V.b seems to say that you have to be a General member to participate in the Internet number resource policy development process, which seems to contradict section 1.3 of the PDP. Maybe instead of "Internet number resource policy development," it was meant to say "ARIN governance," or "the Election of Trustees." This would be consistent with the last sentence of the Service Member clause.</div><div><br></div><div>So, not only is clarification of the definition of an organization needed in the NRPM, but I also think some clarifications are needed in the bylaws.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 1:31 AM Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>If individuals who want resources are getting them via sole proprietorships, what is the problem we’re trying to solve here? Have we already spent more time discussing this than will be saved by reducing the paperwork burden on the handful of people who need direct ARIN resources and can’t set up a sole proprietorship as easily as most?</div><br id="m_-1214933813493912174lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Scott</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 4, 2025, at 7:21 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jun 4, 2025, at 6:40 PM, David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<div><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 4:07 PM John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
David –<br>
<br>
Answers below, inline.<span> </span><br>
<br>
> On Jun 4, 2025, at 11:48 AM, David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><span> </span><br>
> Thanks John,<br>
><span> </span><br>
> Some follow-up questions;<br>
><span> </span><br>
> 1. Is there a reassignment mechanism for ASNs? I'm not aware of one. A natural person not operating a business can obtain IP addresses from an ISP/LIR and expect them to be reassigned to them for their use. But how does a natural person not operating a business
obtain an ASN for their use? This seems like a hole in the system.<br>
<br>
An ISP can request an ASN for their customer to use and create a ROA for it (or the customer can use private ASN if their ISP supports such.)<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The problem with that is that if a natural person not operating a business gets a detailed reassignment of address space, it shows up under their OrgID, where they control the POCs. However, an ASN would currently have to show up under their ISP's OrgID.
The ISP could make them a resource POC for the ASN, but it isn't quite the same. It also doesn't accurately communicate how the ASN is being used from an operational perspective.
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Quite correct. (It is a very unusual case, but since you asked if it was possible, I provided the answer…) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Note that it is far more common for individuals to apply directly to ARIN for an ASN; this does result in them signing an RSA with ARIN, and we do treat them as a sole proprietor of their organization for purposes of contracting. This is a fairly routine
occurrence, and results them having the ASN under their OrgID, and reflects the operational use more aptly then receiving one via the reassignment process (as you already noted above.)</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div>If ARIN wants to avoid natural persons not operating a business as direct customers, providing a detailed reassignment type mechanism for ASNs is a possible place to start for a compromise.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have many individuals obtain ASNs from ARIN under present policy without any difficulties as far as we can determine, and so the need for such a policy is unclear. Noting such, if the community believes such a mechanism is necessary, develops number
resource policy for it, then it will be implemented once the policy is adopted. </div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
> 2. If a natural person is not operating a business, and their only relationship to ARIN is indirectly through an ISP or LIR, what about portability, and what happens if the ISP/LIR goes bankrupt? If we do not allow a direct relationship between ARIN and natural
persons not operating a business, then the system needs some mechanism to support ISP/LIR portability and protections for ISP/LIR bankruptcy.<br>
<br>
The number resources are issued to the ISP/LIR, not the individual, and control over the number resources remains with ISP even if reassigned/reallocated in registry.<span> </span><br>
<br>
If the ISP/LIR goes bankrupt, the ISP's number resources are contractual rights that are treated as assets of their estate and handled according to standard bankruptcy procedures, subject to ARIN’s transfer policies. <br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is where RIPE's Sponsoring LIR mechanism probably has some advantages. It maintains the B2B business model between the RIR and the ISP/LIR, while the ISP/LIR maintains the B2C relationship. The resources are maintained in the end-user's name. The
end-user can change their Sponsoring LIR, which would likely happen in the case of LIR bankruptcy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Would ARIN consider a Sponsoring LIR mechanism to provide resources to natural persons not operating a business, while maintaining its B2B business model? </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>“Would ARIN consider…?” ARIN is your organization, so the answer to all such questions is “Yes”, but with some caveats… </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The policy development policy process is designed to accommodate routine changes to the number resource policy manual, and is likely not the best mechanism for major changes to ARIN’s customer and service model. Such changes fall under the purview of
the ARIN Board of Trustees, and are made after extensive engagement with the community. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We’ve done a number of these changes over the last two decades, including a ISP/end-user services alignment, a major fee harmonization effort, the general/service member restructuring, etc. In each case, there was extensive discussion of the problem that
needed to be solved, and implications for the ARIN community that would result from the change. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So: “Yes”, but it starts with a suggestion to ACSP including the problem to be solved. As noted above, we’re unable to determine if present practice poses any material problems for individuals requesting number resources, so that will be an important
part of discussion with the community. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>/John</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>John Curran</div>
<div>President and CEO</div>
<div>American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div>