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<div>On Jun 4, 2025, at 6:40 PM, David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 4:07 PM John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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David –<br>
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Answers below, inline.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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> On Jun 4, 2025, at 11:48 AM, David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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> Thanks John,<br>
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> Some follow-up questions;<br>
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> 1. Is there a reassignment mechanism for ASNs? I'm not aware of one. A natural person not operating a business can obtain IP addresses from an ISP/LIR and expect them to be reassigned to them for their use. But how does a natural person not operating a business
obtain an ASN for their use? This seems like a hole in the system.<br>
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An ISP can request an ASN for their customer to use and create a ROA for it (or the customer can use private ASN if their ISP supports such.)<br>
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<div>The problem with that is that if a natural person not operating a business gets a detailed reassignment of address space, it shows up under their OrgID, where they control the POCs. However, an ASN would currently have to show up under their ISP's OrgID.
The ISP could make them a resource POC for the ASN, but it isn't quite the same. It also doesn't accurately communicate how the ASN is being used from an operational perspective.
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<div>Quite correct. (It is a very unusual case, but since you asked if it was possible, I provided the answer…) </div>
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<div>Note that it is far more common for individuals to apply directly to ARIN for an ASN; this does result in them signing an RSA with ARIN, and we do treat them as a sole proprietor of their organization for purposes of contracting. This is a fairly routine
occurrence, and results them having the ASN under their OrgID, and reflects the operational use more aptly then receiving one via the reassignment process (as you already noted above.)</div>
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<div>If ARIN wants to avoid natural persons not operating a business as direct customers, providing a detailed reassignment type mechanism for ASNs is a possible place to start for a compromise.</div>
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<div>We have many individuals obtain ASNs from ARIN under present policy without any difficulties as far as we can determine, and so the need for such a policy is unclear. Noting such, if the community believes such a mechanism is necessary, develops number
resource policy for it, then it will be implemented once the policy is adopted. </div>
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> 2. If a natural person is not operating a business, and their only relationship to ARIN is indirectly through an ISP or LIR, what about portability, and what happens if the ISP/LIR goes bankrupt? If we do not allow a direct relationship between ARIN and natural
persons not operating a business, then the system needs some mechanism to support ISP/LIR portability and protections for ISP/LIR bankruptcy.<br>
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The number resources are issued to the ISP/LIR, not the individual, and control over the number resources remains with ISP even if reassigned/reallocated in registry.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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If the ISP/LIR goes bankrupt, the ISP's number resources are contractual rights that are treated as assets of their estate and handled according to standard bankruptcy procedures, subject to ARIN’s transfer policies. <br>
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<div>This is where RIPE's Sponsoring LIR mechanism probably has some advantages. It maintains the B2B business model between the RIR and the ISP/LIR, while the ISP/LIR maintains the B2C relationship. The resources are maintained in the end-user's name. The
end-user can change their Sponsoring LIR, which would likely happen in the case of LIR bankruptcy.</div>
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<div>Would ARIN consider a Sponsoring LIR mechanism to provide resources to natural persons not operating a business, while maintaining its B2B business model? </div>
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<div>“Would ARIN consider…?” ARIN is your organization, so the answer to all such questions is “Yes”, but with some caveats… </div>
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<div>The policy development policy process is designed to accommodate routine changes to the number resource policy manual, and is likely not the best mechanism for major changes to ARIN’s customer and service model. Such changes fall under the purview of
the ARIN Board of Trustees, and are made after extensive engagement with the community. </div>
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<div>We’ve done a number of these changes over the last two decades, including a ISP/end-user services alignment, a major fee harmonization effort, the general/service member restructuring, etc. In each case, there was extensive discussion of the problem that
needed to be solved, and implications for the ARIN community that would result from the change. </div>
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<div>So: “Yes”, but it starts with a suggestion to ACSP including the problem to be solved. As noted above, we’re unable to determine if present practice poses any material problems for individuals requesting number resources, so that will be an important
part of discussion with the community. </div>
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<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>/John</div>
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<div>John Curran</div>
<div>President and CEO</div>
<div>American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
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