<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Mohibul:<div><br></div><div><div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The proposal is live at <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/proposals/2025/ARIN_prop_343/">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/proposals/2025/ARIN_prop_343/</a></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The policy shepherds have already engaged on some verbiage changes they need which I will work on having to them next week.</div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">It is definitely too late for it to become policy at ARIN 55, but hopefully it can have some initial discussion there; and then be fully buttoned up for ARIN 56.</div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Preston Louis Ursini</div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div></div></div>
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 27, 2025, at 7:06 PM, arin-ppml-request@arin.net wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div>Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>arin-ppml@arin.net<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>arin-ppml-owner@arin.net<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next Steps<br> (Mohibul Mahmud)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 20:06:24 -0400<br>From: Mohibul Mahmud <mhasib@gmail.com><br>To: arin-ppml@arin.net<br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Steps<br>Message-ID:<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><CABZHJ9+NMjQGEAFqnT9pJYkE0XbDM-5M9p+cgwNCz+uvrTK_Qw@mail.gmail.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next Steps<br><br><br><br>Hello everyone,<br><br><br><br>Thank you, Preston, for taking the initiative to submit an official policy<br>proposal regarding the distribution of resources to individuals.<br><br><br><br>I truly appreciate the thoughtful discussions that have taken place on this<br>topic over the past few weeks.<br><br><br><br>As someone who initially suggested that ARIN study the practices from RIPE<br>and APNIC in an official staff report (to better understand the<br>trade-offs), I am pleased to see the community moving toward concrete<br>action.<br><br><br><br>I would be very interested in seeing a preliminary version of the proposed<br>text, if possible, and would also encourage that we continue exploring:<br><br> - Lessons learned from other RIRs' approaches to individual allocations.<br> - Potential operational impacts (verification processes, anti-abuse<br> mechanisms).<br> - How to maintain fairness and transparency while broadening access.<br><br><br><br>Looking forward to continuing this conversation during ARIN 55 and beyond!<br><br><br><br>Best regards,<br><br>Mohibul<br><br><br><br>On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 6:11?PM <arin-ppml-request@arin.net> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br> arin-ppml@arin.net<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> arin-ppml-owner@arin.net<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Preston Ursini)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:10:49 -0500<br>From: Preston Ursini <preston@thefirehorn.com><br>To: arin-ppml@arin.net<br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID: <D1BE3305-0ED5-485A-BD3B-FAC8F6707327@thefirehorn.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>I believe there has been ample evidence from the community and first hand<br>evidence introduced to justify this being made into a policy proposal.<br><br>I?ve sent an official policy proposal to policy@arin.net <mailto:<br>policy@arin.net> ; hopefully this can be shepherded in with full ARIN<br>support by ARIN 56, with some sort of preliminary discussion even possible<br>at ARIN 55.<br><br>Preston Louis Ursini<br><br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 21, 2025, at 4:28?PM, arin-ppml-request@arin.net wrote:<br><br>Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br> arin-ppml@arin.net<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> arin-ppml-owner@arin.net<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Mohibul Mahmud)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:28:36 -0400<br>From: Mohibul Mahmud <mhasib@gmail.com><br>To: arin-ppml@arin.net<br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID:<br> <<br></blockquote>CABZHJ9+5zkXHnJ0bDUcemq6s+uVqWhaHX_QJL394jo_3M3Q2og@mail.gmail.com><br><blockquote type="cite">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Hello,<br><br>Since RIPE and APNIC have variations in how individuals can receive<br>resources, would it make sense for ARIN to document and review lessons<br></blockquote>from<br><blockquote type="cite">those models in an official staff assessment or community report?<br><br>This might help the community better evaluate the trade-offs before<br>considering any changes to our own policies.<br><br>-Mohibul<br><br><br><br>On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:43?PM <arin-ppml-request@arin.net> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br> arin-ppml@arin.net<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> arin-ppml-owner@arin.net<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Owen DeLong)<br> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)<br> 3. Re: distributing resources for individuals (David Farmer)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:13:23 -0700<br>From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com><br>To: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br>Cc: Paul E McNary <pmcnary@cameron.net>, arin-ppml@arin.net<br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID: <E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB@delong.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br><br>While your statement is technically true, what they do not provide is an<br>authoritative proof that an entity does not exist as a legal entity<br></blockquote></blockquote>which<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">can be verified. In fact, not all states registries will even allow the<br>listing of sole proprietorships without a fictitious name and some of<br></blockquote></blockquote>those<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">states won?t allow fictitious name use of the individual?s legal name.<br><br>I doubt you would find any of the following organizations which legally<br>exist in California in the SOS registry:<br> Delong Consulting<br> Owen DeLong and Family<br> Purple Politico<br><br>This doesn?t prevent two of them from appearing on schedule C forms and<br></blockquote></blockquote>it<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hasn?t prevented ARIN from taking money from the third for decades for<br>resources being registered to it.<br><br>ARIN?s misuse of SOS registries as an authoritative source of proof an<br>organization doesn?t exist is what is the crux of the issue here.<br><br>When DNS returns NXDOMAIN from an authoritative server, you know that<br></blockquote></blockquote>that<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">record doesn?t exist. This is not the case with SOS registries. All you<br></blockquote></blockquote>can<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">get from them is that the organization definitely exists or absent a<br>record, that the organization may or may not exist.<br><br>Owen<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 17, 2025, at 18:12, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:<br><br>?Paul -<br><br>At explained to you on several occasions (including in-person at<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>WISPA),<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ARIN conducts a business entity search within your state?s registry and<br>that returns corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships, DBA<br></blockquote></blockquote>names,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">etc. Secretary of State business entity registries provide<br></blockquote></blockquote>public-facing,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">authoritative records confirming that an organization exists as a legal<br>entity which can be verified for every state in a clear, consistent, and<br>neutral manner.<br><blockquote type="cite"><br>Thanks,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:42?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary@cameron.net><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>ARIN wouldn't accept my City, County, business licenses or my state<br></blockquote></blockquote>business IDs from Department of Revenue on a business that I started in<br>,1979. Why?<br><blockquote type="cite"><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br></blockquote><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:41:59 +0000<br>From: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br>To: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com><br>Cc: "arin-ppml@arin.net" <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID: <81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F@arin.net><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>On Apr 18, 2025, at 11:42?AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:<br><br>IMHO the best tact at this point may well be to submit both ACSP and<br>policy proposals which provide for ARIN to issue resources to<br></blockquote></blockquote>individuals<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">as unregistered (by state) sole proprietorships.<br><br>While ARIN follows current NRPM by issuing to resources to organizations<br>(and encourages individuals to utilize the sole proprietor option or dba<br>for compliance), a policy change to provide number resource issuance<br>specifically to individuals is certainly something that this community<br>could consider. The problem statement would appear to be (as you<br></blockquote></blockquote>suggest<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">above) something along the lines of: ?Resolve inability of ARIN to<br>issuance IPv4/IPv6/ASN number resources directly to individuals."<br><br>Doing so via the policy process would make sure that any germane policy<br>nuances (e.g. issuance to individuals under ISP vs end-user policy,<br></blockquote></blockquote>waiting<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">list policy, etc.) get appropraite consideration when applied to<br>individual resource holders.<br><br>(I do not believe that any ACSP is necessary, as Impact to ARIN's<br></blockquote></blockquote>existing<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">operational practices and any implications for directly serving<br></blockquote></blockquote>individuals<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are the type of issue that can be explored in the staff and legal<br></blockquote></blockquote>review. )<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>FYI,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<br><br></blockquote></blockquote>https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/8f4167f8/attachment-0001.htm<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:42:20 -0500<br>From: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu><br>To: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com><br>Cc: Ryan Hamel <ryan@rkhtech.org>, Preston Ursini<br> <preston@thefirehorn.com>, arin-ppml@arin.net<br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID:<br> <<br>CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH+6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg@mail.gmail.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>In my view, Secretary of State (SOS) registration is an easy button for<br>ARIN, and when available, that's fine. Nevertheless, I also expect ARIN<br></blockquote></blockquote>to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have processes and procedures in place when the SOS option is not<br>available. A sole proprietorship that is not registered with the SOS is<br>still a valid business in many states, and ARIN needs processes and<br>procedures in place to deal with that situation.<br><br>Earlier, I referenced Section 9 and the flexibility in determining that<br></blockquote></blockquote>an<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">organization is operating in the ARIN; similar flexibility is needed in<br>determining whether an individual is operating as a business. I'll also<br>note that Section 9 is quite clear: registration in the ARIN region<br></blockquote></blockquote>alone<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is not sufficient to determine whether an organization is operating in<br></blockquote></blockquote>the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ARIN region. Similarly, a lack of registration alone should not be<br>sufficient to find that an individual is not operating as a business.<br><br>As to ARIN policy, it predominantly references organizations.<br></blockquote></blockquote>Individuals<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">only come up in the context of defining a Residential Customer. With<br></blockquote></blockquote>that<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">context, ARIN policy strongly assumes LIRs, ISPs, and end-users are<br>organizations, not individuals.<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 11:05?AM Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Not all states will register a sole proprietorship under a person?s<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>legal<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">name, making it difficult for some sole proprietorships to clear ARIN?s<br>current requirements. Worse, individuals and sole proprietors who know<br>which buttons to push on the ARIN staff seem to be able to get ORG-IDs<br>without SOS registration while others seem to get rejected on that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>basis.<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>I?m not arguing that these ?exceptions? should go away, I?m arguing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>that<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">they should be more widely available and perhaps it is time to drop the<br>?organization? pretext altogether.<br><br>Owen<br><br><br>On Apr 17, 2025, at 17:54, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <<br></blockquote>arin-ppml@arin.net><br><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br><br>?<br>Ok, natural persons can be RIPE members in their own right, I guess I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>was<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wrong, but you pay ?1,800 for membership. Where as with ARIN you start<br></blockquote>at<br><blockquote type="cite">$250, even with potential state registration fees for a sole<br>proprietorship, you probably still come out well ahead.<br><br>On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:43 David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Out of curiosity can you point me to the agreement on RIPE?s web site.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:38 Ryan Hamel <ryan@rkhtech.org> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">David,<br><br>I signed an agreement with RIPE NCC, have an account in their portal,<br>and had an ASN + IPv6 assignment...<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>Ryan Hamel<br>------------------------------<br>*From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of David<br>Farmer via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>*Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2025 6:35:37 PM<br>*To:* John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br>*Cc:* Preston Ursini <preston@thefirehorn.com>; arin-ppml@arin.net <<br>arin-ppml@arin.net><br>*Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br><br>Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take<br>care when clicking links or opening attachments.<br><br>First, my understanding is that individuals don't get resources from<br>RIPE either; Member Organizations do. You, as an individual, get<br>resources from an LIR that is a RIPE Member, and the LIR gets the<br>resources from RIPE, maintains the relationship with RIPE, and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>assigns<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">them to you. As an individual, your relationship is with the LIR, not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>RIPE,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">unless I'm completely misunderstanding RIPE's policies and business<br>practices.<br><br>A similar arrangement could be facilitated by an LIR (also known as<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>an<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ISP) that is an ARIN Member Organization. That isn't as common a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>practice<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">here in the ARIN Region. ARIN has a lower barrier to entry and deals<br>directly with end-user organizations, but not end-users as<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>individuals.<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>Thanks.<br><br>On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 6:51?PM John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>Preston -<br><br>I don?t think any of the present discussion has been predicated on<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>fraud<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">concerns.<br><br>(Note that ARIN currently has some extensive anti-fraud practices<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>that<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">include various forms of government issued ID presentation and<br>verification.)<br><br>Thanks,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br>On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:39?PM, Preston Ursini <preston@thefirehorn.com<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br><br>Would I be correct in that there hasn?t been an actually policy<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>proposal<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">submitted for this?<br><br>I believe that whether or not this new policy were to be considered,<br>that a copy of a government issued identification document be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>submitted to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the person signing the Registration Services Agreement whenever an<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>OrgID is<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">issued. This can help immensely in tracking down fraud which seems<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">be a<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">pillar concern.<br><br>For simplicity sake, I?d also say in any such policy allowing an<br>Individual to obtain numbering assets simply be issued an OrgID just<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>as<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sole proprietors are as to minimize disruption to ARIN operations in<br>implementing this policy.<br><br><br>Preston Ursini<br><br><br>On Apr 17, 2025, at 6:28?PM, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:<br><br>Preston -<br><br>That?s a reasonable question (?why an individual cannot be accepted<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>as<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">they are generally the same legal entity??)<br><br>You?re right that a sole proprietorship is legally tied to the<br>individual behind it, but that doesn?t make it the same as issuing<br>resources to individuals. At the time of ARIN?s formation (and for a<br>suibstantial period before), number resources were issued to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>organizations.<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The old netnumber.txt request forms made that clear, asking for ?the<br>organization responsible for establishing the network? along with a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>postal<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">address. That model is what ARIN inherited when it was formed in<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>1997,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">it?s what we continue to operate under.<br><br>While it?s true in theory that ARIN could adopt a model where it<br>directly serves individuals, this would represent a significant<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>departure<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">from the registry model we inherited and have operated under for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>decades.<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Even though individuals and organizations can both be ?legal<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>entities,?<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that does not mean they are treated identically under law. For<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>example,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">companies that predominantly focus on serving businesses (often<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>referred to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">as B2B) are often subject to different laws, regulations, and tax<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>policy<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">than those that hold themselves out to serve individuals. Thus,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>shifting to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a model that openly includes individuals could have significant<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>unintended<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">implications for ARIN.<br><br>That doesn?t mean it can?t be done, but it would be important to<br>understand the problem that such a change would solve. ARIN accepts<br>incorporated entities, DBAs, sole proprietors, etc.?because we know<br>networks are run by all kinds of operators. But in every case, we?re<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>still<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">issuing to an organization, however minimal the structure might be.<br><br>Thanks!<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br>On Apr 17, 2025, at 2:09?PM, Preston Ursini via ARIN-PPML <<br>arin-ppml@arin.net> wrote:<br><br>If a sole proprietorship is accepted, I am confused as to why an<br>Individual cannot be accepted as they are generally the same legal<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>entity<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">unless it is an individual?<br><br>There are over 20,000 political subdivisions within the United States<br>when you count cities, counties, townships, etc., all with their own<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>rules<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">when it comes to business licenses and conducting business, trying to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>tie<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">every sole proprietorship down with a business license when one may<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>not be<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">required in many of these jurisdictions seems strange at best.<br><br>In general the law sees Corporations and Individuals as all in the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>same,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so I?m a little confused as to why ARIN would be ok with doing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>business<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with a sole proprietor but not an "individual"?<br><br>If the issue is fraud prevention, it seems like a better approach<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>would<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">be tying all accounts regardless of whether it is a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>business/individual,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with a government issued identification document; the trend with<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>having an<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">officer of a company sign an RSA seems to be a step in the direction<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>in<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">tying real people to accounts; assuming the goal here is to ensure<br>accountability for resource allocation?<br><br><br><br>Preston Ursini<br><br><br>On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:21?AM, arin-ppml-request@arin.net wrote:<br><br>Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>arin-ppml@arin.net<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br>arin-ppml-owner@arin.net<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br>1. Re: distributing resources for individuals<br> (jordi.palet@consulintel.es)<br>2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)<br><br><br><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 09:00:26 +0200<br>From: "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es><br>To: arin-ppml <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID: <9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382@consulintel.es><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Hi John,<br><br>A couple of questions on this:<br><br>1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?<br>procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>division<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?<br><br>2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping<br>that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>money,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present<br>quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>activity),<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is close to ?zero"?<br><br>3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a<br>sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>expensive<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>membership<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>instead<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>course<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>already<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">set in the policies for each type of resource)?<br><br>Regards,<br>Jordi<br><br>@jordipalet<br><br><br>El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> escribi?:<br><br>Ryan -<br><br>Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>times<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>we do<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>number<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,<br>incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further<br>discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>be<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">solved.<br><br>Thanks,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br>On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan@rkhtech.org> wrote:<br><br>John,<br><br>I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>under<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>tickets, and<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the legal team.<br><br>A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>several<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>ARIN's<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">agreements.<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>Ryan Hamel<br>From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of David<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>Farmer<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM<br>To: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br>Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br><br>Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take<br>care when clicking links or opening attachments.<br><br>John,<br><br>The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>if<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>need to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.<br><br>So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,<br>effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>also<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">owner's name.<br><br>Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>an<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>latitude<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>business<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>don't<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">neatly align with ARIN procedures.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran@arin.net<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><mailto:<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">jcurran@arin.net>> wrote:<br><br><br>On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary@cameron.net<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><mailto:<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">pmcnary@cameron.net>> wrote:<br><br>Originally<br>12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>by<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this.<br>In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>with<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Secretary of State.<br>ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with<br>Secretary of State database.<br>We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that<br>wasn't good enough.<br><br><br>Paul -<br><br>To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>resulted<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>unable to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>is a<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all<br>appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>is/was<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>understand<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.<br><br>Thanks,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br><br><br><br><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>http://www.theipv6company.com<br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>or<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>of<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>distribution<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">or<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br>offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>this<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">communication and delete it.<br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<br><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br></blockquote></blockquote>https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/59eecf73/attachment-0001.htm<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:21:30 +0000<br>From: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br>To: "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es><br>Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>Message-ID: <19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949@arin.net><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Jordi -<br><br>The representation you seek from ARIN regarding government procedures<br>across the the entire region is not possible to make ? and as you<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>note, it<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">would be meaningless the very next day because such laws and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>regulations<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are outside of ARIN?s control and subject to change. Note that this<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>is the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">case regardless of whether speaking of networks run by organizations<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>or<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">individuals ? the legal requirements on networks in any given portion<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>of<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the ARIN region are not determined by ARIN.<br><br>What we can say is that our customers want us to be reasonably<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>flexible<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in our processes to the extent possible, just as we are with respect<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">confirming whether organizations requesting resources operate within<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ARIN region. We?ve evolved our processes over time to make be more<br>straightforward, and this includes handling entities that are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>incorporated,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">those using DBA registrations, sole proprietorships, etc.<br><br>Your original query noted that ? In LACNIC we are having a discussion<br>because the policy manual only allows to distribute resources to<br>?organizations legally registered? ? ? To be clear, ARIN is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>effectively the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">same, but we are quite flexible in recognition of how our network<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>customers<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">may go about their legal registration.<br><br>Thanks!<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br>On Apr 17, 2025, at 3:00?AM, jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML <<br>arin-ppml@arin.net> wrote:<br><br>Hi John,<br><br>A couple of questions on this:<br><br>1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?<br>procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>division<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?<br><br>2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping<br>that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>money,<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present<br>quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>activity),<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is close to ?zero"?<br><br>3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a<br>sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>expensive<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>membership<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>instead<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>course<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>already<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">set in the policies for each type of resource)?<br><br>Regards,<br>Jordi<br><br>@jordipalet<br><br><br>El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> escribi?:<br><br>Ryan -<br><br>Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>times<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>we do<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>number<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,<br>incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further<br>discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>be<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">solved.<br><br>Thanks,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br>On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <ryan@rkhtech.org> wrote:<br><br>John,<br><br>I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>under<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>tickets, and<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the legal team.<br><br>A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>several<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>ARIN's<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">agreements.<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>Ryan Hamel<br>________________________________<br>From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of David<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>Farmer<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM<br>To: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net><br>Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml@arin.net><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br><br>Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take<br>care when clicking links or opening attachments.<br><br>John,<br><br>The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>if<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>need to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.<br><br>So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,<br>effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>also<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">owner's name.<br><br>Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>an<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>latitude<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>business<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>don't<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">neatly align with ARIN procedures.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <jcurran@arin.net<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><mailto:<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">jcurran@arin.net>> wrote:<br><br><br>On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <pmcnary@cameron.net<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><mailto:<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">pmcnary@cameron.net>> wrote:<br><br>Originally<br>12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>by<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this.<br>In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>with<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Secretary of State.<br>ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with<br>Secretary of State database.<br>We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that<br>wasn't good enough.<br><br>Paul -<br><br>To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>resulted<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>unable to<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>is a<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all<br>appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>is/was<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>understand<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.<br><br>Thanks,<br>/John<br><br>John Curran<br>President and CEO<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br><br><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>http://www.theipv6company.com<br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>or<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>of<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>the<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>distribution<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">or<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br>offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>this<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">communication and delete it.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<br><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br></blockquote></blockquote>https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/4718a46d/attachment.htm<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>ARIN-PPML@arin.net<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 17<br>******************************************<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br><br><br><br><br>--<br>===============================================<br>David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu<br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota<br>2218 University Ave SE<br><<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br></blockquote></blockquote>https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>===============================================<br><br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br></blockquote>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br><br><br></blockquote><br>--<br>===============================================<br>David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu<br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota<br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>===============================================<br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<br><br></blockquote></blockquote>https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/53c44af4/attachment.htm<br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>ARIN-PPML@arin.net<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 40<br>******************************************<br><br></blockquote>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<br></blockquote>https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250421/7c398c04/attachment.htm<br><blockquote type="cite"><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>ARIN-PPML@arin.net<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 41<br>******************************************<br><br></blockquote><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<br>https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250421/2cdcfae1/attachment.htm<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>ARIN-PPML@arin.net<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 42<br>******************************************<br><br></blockquote>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250427/5633c2f7/attachment.htm><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>ARIN-PPML@arin.net<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 43<br>******************************************<br><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>