<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span> Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources
for Individuals – Proposal Update</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Hello Preston,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Thank you very much
for sharing the proposal link and for your prompt update.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">I appreciate your
efforts in moving this important topic forward.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">I look forward to
reviewing the text in more detail and participating in any preliminary
discussions during ARIN 55.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">It’s encouraging to
see the policy process advancing step-by-step, and I am optimistic that this
proposal will generate further thoughtful input from the community on how best
to address the evolving needs of individual network operators.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Wishing you all the
best as you continue working with the policy shepherds on the next version.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Best regards,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Mohibul Mahmud</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Fellow of ICANN 82
& ARIN 52 | Member of NARALO</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt">Cloud Engineer at
Microsoft <em style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">(comments made in a personal capacity)</em></p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p><p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt"><br></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 8:31 PM <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 43 (Preston Ursini)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 19:31:07 -0500<br>
From: Preston Ursini <<a href="mailto:preston@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">preston@thefirehorn.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>, <a href="mailto:mhasib@gmail.com" target="_blank">mhasib@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 43<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:411F1D5B-C335-4F52-B796-0604CFB9D236@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">411F1D5B-C335-4F52-B796-0604CFB9D236@thefirehorn.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Mohibul:<br>
<br>
The proposal is live at <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/proposals/2025/ARIN_prop_343/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/proposals/2025/ARIN_prop_343/</a><br>
<br>
The policy shepherds have already engaged on some verbiage changes they need which I will work on having to them next week.<br>
<br>
It is definitely too late for it to become policy at ARIN 55, but hopefully it can have some initial discussion there; and then be fully buttoned up for ARIN 56.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Preston Louis Ursini<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Apr 27, 2025, at 7:06?PM, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
> <br>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
> <br>
> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
> <br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Today's Topics:<br>
> <br>
> 1. Re: Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next Steps<br>
> (Mohibul Mahmud)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 20:06:24 -0400<br>
> From: Mohibul Mahmud <<a href="mailto:mhasib@gmail.com" target="_blank">mhasib@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next<br>
> Steps<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <<a href="mailto:CABZHJ9%2BNMjQGEAFqnT9pJYkE0XbDM-5M9p%2BcgwNCz%2BuvrTK_Qw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CABZHJ9+NMjQGEAFqnT9pJYkE0XbDM-5M9p+cgwNCz+uvrTK_Qw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
> <br>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Distributing Resources for Individuals ? Next Steps<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Hello everyone,<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Thank you, Preston, for taking the initiative to submit an official policy<br>
> proposal regarding the distribution of resources to individuals.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I truly appreciate the thoughtful discussions that have taken place on this<br>
> topic over the past few weeks.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> As someone who initially suggested that ARIN study the practices from RIPE<br>
> and APNIC in an official staff report (to better understand the<br>
> trade-offs), I am pleased to see the community moving toward concrete<br>
> action.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I would be very interested in seeing a preliminary version of the proposed<br>
> text, if possible, and would also encourage that we continue exploring:<br>
> <br>
> - Lessons learned from other RIRs' approaches to individual allocations.<br>
> - Potential operational impacts (verification processes, anti-abuse<br>
> mechanisms).<br>
> - How to maintain fairness and transparency while broadening access.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Looking forward to continuing this conversation during ARIN 55 and beyond!<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Best regards,<br>
> <br>
> Mohibul<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 6:11?PM <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>> <br>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
>> <br>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
>> <br>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Today's Topics:<br>
>> <br>
>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Preston Ursini)<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> <br>
>> Message: 1<br>
>> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:10:49 -0500<br>
>> From: Preston Ursini <<a href="mailto:preston@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">preston@thefirehorn.com</a>><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:D1BE3305-0ED5-485A-BD3B-FAC8F6707327@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">D1BE3305-0ED5-485A-BD3B-FAC8F6707327@thefirehorn.com</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>> <br>
>> I believe there has been ample evidence from the community and first hand<br>
>> evidence introduced to justify this being made into a policy proposal.<br>
>> <br>
>> I?ve sent an official policy proposal to <a href="mailto:policy@arin.net" target="_blank">policy@arin.net</a> <mailto:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:policy@arin.net" target="_blank">policy@arin.net</a>> ; hopefully this can be shepherded in with full ARIN<br>
>> support by ARIN 56, with some sort of preliminary discussion even possible<br>
>> at ARIN 55.<br>
>> <br>
>> Preston Louis Ursini<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>>> On Apr 21, 2025, at 4:28?PM, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> Today's Topics:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Mohibul Mahmud)<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Message: 1<br>
>>> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:28:36 -0400<br>
>>> From: Mohibul Mahmud <<a href="mailto:mhasib@gmail.com" target="_blank">mhasib@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>> Message-ID:<br>
>>> <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:CABZHJ9%2B5zkXHnJ0bDUcemq6s%2BuVqWhaHX_QJL394jo_3M3Q2og@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CABZHJ9+5zkXHnJ0bDUcemq6s+uVqWhaHX_QJL394jo_3M3Q2og@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Hello,<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Since RIPE and APNIC have variations in how individuals can receive<br>
>>> resources, would it make sense for ARIN to document and review lessons<br>
>> from<br>
>>> those models in an official staff assessment or community report?<br>
>>> <br>
>>> This might help the community better evaluate the trade-offs before<br>
>>> considering any changes to our own policies.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> -Mohibul<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:43?PM <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>>>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Today's Topics:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Owen DeLong)<br>
>>>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)<br>
>>>> 3. Re: distributing resources for individuals (David Farmer)<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Message: 1<br>
>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:13:23 -0700<br>
>>>> From: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
>>>> To: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>> Cc: Paul E McNary <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB@delong.com" target="_blank">E660BC18-763B-49C5-903B-AF8822BFA2EB@delong.com</a>><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> While your statement is technically true, what they do not provide is an<br>
>>>> authoritative proof that an entity does not exist as a legal entity<br>
>> which<br>
>>>> can be verified. In fact, not all states registries will even allow the<br>
>>>> listing of sole proprietorships without a fictitious name and some of<br>
>> those<br>
>>>> states won?t allow fictitious name use of the individual?s legal name.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> I doubt you would find any of the following organizations which legally<br>
>>>> exist in California in the SOS registry:<br>
>>>> Delong Consulting<br>
>>>> Owen DeLong and Family<br>
>>>> Purple Politico<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> This doesn?t prevent two of them from appearing on schedule C forms and<br>
>> it<br>
>>>> hasn?t prevented ARIN from taking money from the third for decades for<br>
>>>> resources being registered to it.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ARIN?s misuse of SOS registries as an authoritative source of proof an<br>
>>>> organization doesn?t exist is what is the crux of the issue here.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> When DNS returns NXDOMAIN from an authoritative server, you know that<br>
>> that<br>
>>>> record doesn?t exist. This is not the case with SOS registries. All you<br>
>> can<br>
>>>> get from them is that the organization definitely exists or absent a<br>
>>>> record, that the organization may or may not exist.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Owen<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 18:12, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> ?Paul -<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> At explained to you on several occasions (including in-person at<br>
>> WISPA),<br>
>>>> ARIN conducts a business entity search within your state?s registry and<br>
>>>> that returns corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships, DBA<br>
>> names,<br>
>>>> etc. Secretary of State business entity registries provide<br>
>> public-facing,<br>
>>>> authoritative records confirming that an organization exists as a legal<br>
>>>> entity which can be verified for every state in a clear, consistent, and<br>
>>>> neutral manner.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:42?PM, Paul E McNary <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> ARIN wouldn't accept my City, County, business licenses or my state<br>
>>>> business IDs from Department of Revenue on a business that I started in<br>
>>>> ,1979. Why?<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Message: 2<br>
>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:41:59 +0000<br>
>>>> From: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>> To: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
>>>> Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F@arin.net" target="_blank">81862092-4450-4E9E-9D86-C56A07EAB85F@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> On Apr 18, 2025, at 11:42?AM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> IMHO the best tact at this point may well be to submit both ACSP and<br>
>>>> policy proposals which provide for ARIN to issue resources to<br>
>> individuals<br>
>>>> as unregistered (by state) sole proprietorships.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> While ARIN follows current NRPM by issuing to resources to organizations<br>
>>>> (and encourages individuals to utilize the sole proprietor option or dba<br>
>>>> for compliance), a policy change to provide number resource issuance<br>
>>>> specifically to individuals is certainly something that this community<br>
>>>> could consider. The problem statement would appear to be (as you<br>
>> suggest<br>
>>>> above) something along the lines of: ?Resolve inability of ARIN to<br>
>>>> issuance IPv4/IPv6/ASN number resources directly to individuals."<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Doing so via the policy process would make sure that any germane policy<br>
>>>> nuances (e.g. issuance to individuals under ISP vs end-user policy,<br>
>> waiting<br>
>>>> list policy, etc.) get appropraite consideration when applied to<br>
>>>> individual resource holders.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> (I do not believe that any ACSP is necessary, as Impact to ARIN's<br>
>> existing<br>
>>>> operational practices and any implications for directly serving<br>
>> individuals<br>
>>>> are the type of issue that can be explored in the staff and legal<br>
>> review. )<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> FYI,<br>
>>>> /John<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>>>> URL: <<br>
>>>> <br>
>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/8f4167f8/attachment-0001.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/8f4167f8/attachment-0001.htm</a><br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Message: 3<br>
>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:42:20 -0500<br>
>>>> From: David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>><br>
>>>> To: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
>>>> Cc: Ryan Hamel <<a href="mailto:ryan@rkhtech.org" target="_blank">ryan@rkhtech.org</a>>, Preston Ursini<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:preston@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">preston@thefirehorn.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>> Message-ID:<br>
>>>> <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH%2B6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAN-Dau1UAdbi1ojqscOSycBBdH+6XJu_rQ7kz1NroKTPFuETKg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> In my view, Secretary of State (SOS) registration is an easy button for<br>
>>>> ARIN, and when available, that's fine. Nevertheless, I also expect ARIN<br>
>> to<br>
>>>> have processes and procedures in place when the SOS option is not<br>
>>>> available. A sole proprietorship that is not registered with the SOS is<br>
>>>> still a valid business in many states, and ARIN needs processes and<br>
>>>> procedures in place to deal with that situation.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Earlier, I referenced Section 9 and the flexibility in determining that<br>
>> an<br>
>>>> organization is operating in the ARIN; similar flexibility is needed in<br>
>>>> determining whether an individual is operating as a business. I'll also<br>
>>>> note that Section 9 is quite clear: registration in the ARIN region<br>
>> alone<br>
>>>> is not sufficient to determine whether an organization is operating in<br>
>> the<br>
>>>> ARIN region. Similarly, a lack of registration alone should not be<br>
>>>> sufficient to find that an individual is not operating as a business.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> As to ARIN policy, it predominantly references organizations.<br>
>> Individuals<br>
>>>> only come up in the context of defining a Residential Customer. With<br>
>> that<br>
>>>> context, ARIN policy strongly assumes LIRs, ISPs, and end-users are<br>
>>>> organizations, not individuals.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Thanks.<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 11:05?AM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>>> Not all states will register a sole proprietorship under a person?s<br>
>> legal<br>
>>>>> name, making it difficult for some sole proprietorships to clear ARIN?s<br>
>>>>> current requirements. Worse, individuals and sole proprietors who know<br>
>>>>> which buttons to push on the ARIN staff seem to be able to get ORG-IDs<br>
>>>>> without SOS registration while others seem to get rejected on that<br>
>> basis.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> I?m not arguing that these ?exceptions? should go away, I?m arguing<br>
>> that<br>
>>>>> they should be more widely available and perhaps it is time to drop the<br>
>>>>> ?organization? pretext altogether.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> Owen<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 17:54, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> ?<br>
>>>>> Ok, natural persons can be RIPE members in their own right, I guess I<br>
>> was<br>
>>>>> wrong, but you pay ?1,800 for membership. Where as with ARIN you start<br>
>>>> at<br>
>>>>> $250, even with potential state registration fees for a sole<br>
>>>>> proprietorship, you probably still come out well ahead.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:43 David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> Out of curiosity can you point me to the agreement on RIPE?s web site.<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> Thanks<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:38 Ryan Hamel <<a href="mailto:ryan@rkhtech.org" target="_blank">ryan@rkhtech.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> David,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> I signed an agreement with RIPE NCC, have an account in their portal,<br>
>>>>>>> and had an ASN + IPv6 assignment...<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Ryan Hamel<br>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>>>>> *From:* ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of David<br>
>>>>>>> Farmer via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2025 6:35:37 PM<br>
>>>>>>> *To:* John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> *Cc:* Preston Ursini <<a href="mailto:preston@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">preston@thefirehorn.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> <<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take<br>
>>>>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> First, my understanding is that individuals don't get resources from<br>
>>>>>>> RIPE either; Member Organizations do. You, as an individual, get<br>
>>>>>>> resources from an LIR that is a RIPE Member, and the LIR gets the<br>
>>>>>>> resources from RIPE, maintains the relationship with RIPE, and<br>
>> assigns<br>
>>>>>>> them to you. As an individual, your relationship is with the LIR, not<br>
>>>> RIPE,<br>
>>>>>>> unless I'm completely misunderstanding RIPE's policies and business<br>
>>>>>>> practices.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> A similar arrangement could be facilitated by an LIR (also known as<br>
>> an<br>
>>>>>>> ISP) that is an ARIN Member Organization. That isn't as common a<br>
>>>> practice<br>
>>>>>>> here in the ARIN Region. ARIN has a lower barrier to entry and deals<br>
>>>>>>> directly with end-user organizations, but not end-users as<br>
>> individuals.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 6:51?PM John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Preston -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> I don?t think any of the present discussion has been predicated on<br>
>>>> fraud<br>
>>>>>>> concerns.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> (Note that ARIN currently has some extensive anti-fraud practices<br>
>> that<br>
>>>>>>> include various forms of government issued ID presentation and<br>
>>>>>>> verification.)<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:39?PM, Preston Ursini <<a href="mailto:preston@thefirehorn.com" target="_blank">preston@thefirehorn.com</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Would I be correct in that there hasn?t been an actually policy<br>
>>>> proposal<br>
>>>>>>> submitted for this?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> I believe that whether or not this new policy were to be considered,<br>
>>>>>>> that a copy of a government issued identification document be<br>
>>>> submitted to<br>
>>>>>>> the person signing the Registration Services Agreement whenever an<br>
>>>> OrgID is<br>
>>>>>>> issued. This can help immensely in tracking down fraud which seems<br>
>> to<br>
>>>> be a<br>
>>>>>>> pillar concern.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> For simplicity sake, I?d also say in any such policy allowing an<br>
>>>>>>> Individual to obtain numbering assets simply be issued an OrgID just<br>
>> as<br>
>>>>>>> sole proprietors are as to minimize disruption to ARIN operations in<br>
>>>>>>> implementing this policy.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Preston Ursini<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 6:28?PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Preston -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> That?s a reasonable question (?why an individual cannot be accepted<br>
>> as<br>
>>>>>>> they are generally the same legal entity??)<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> You?re right that a sole proprietorship is legally tied to the<br>
>>>>>>> individual behind it, but that doesn?t make it the same as issuing<br>
>>>>>>> resources to individuals. At the time of ARIN?s formation (and for a<br>
>>>>>>> suibstantial period before), number resources were issued to<br>
>>>> organizations.<br>
>>>>>>> The old netnumber.txt request forms made that clear, asking for ?the<br>
>>>>>>> organization responsible for establishing the network? along with a<br>
>>>> postal<br>
>>>>>>> address. That model is what ARIN inherited when it was formed in<br>
>> 1997,<br>
>>>> and<br>
>>>>>>> it?s what we continue to operate under.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> While it?s true in theory that ARIN could adopt a model where it<br>
>>>>>>> directly serves individuals, this would represent a significant<br>
>>>> departure<br>
>>>>>>> from the registry model we inherited and have operated under for<br>
>>>> decades.<br>
>>>>>>> Even though individuals and organizations can both be ?legal<br>
>> entities,?<br>
>>>>>>> that does not mean they are treated identically under law. For<br>
>> example,<br>
>>>>>>> companies that predominantly focus on serving businesses (often<br>
>>>> referred to<br>
>>>>>>> as B2B) are often subject to different laws, regulations, and tax<br>
>>>> policy<br>
>>>>>>> than those that hold themselves out to serve individuals. Thus,<br>
>>>> shifting to<br>
>>>>>>> a model that openly includes individuals could have significant<br>
>>>> unintended<br>
>>>>>>> implications for ARIN.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> That doesn?t mean it can?t be done, but it would be important to<br>
>>>>>>> understand the problem that such a change would solve. ARIN accepts<br>
>>>>>>> incorporated entities, DBAs, sole proprietors, etc.?because we know<br>
>>>>>>> networks are run by all kinds of operators. But in every case, we?re<br>
>>>> still<br>
>>>>>>> issuing to an organization, however minimal the structure might be.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks!<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 2:09?PM, Preston Ursini via ARIN-PPML <<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> If a sole proprietorship is accepted, I am confused as to why an<br>
>>>>>>> Individual cannot be accepted as they are generally the same legal<br>
>>>> entity<br>
>>>>>>> unless it is an individual?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> There are over 20,000 political subdivisions within the United States<br>
>>>>>>> when you count cities, counties, townships, etc., all with their own<br>
>>>> rules<br>
>>>>>>> when it comes to business licenses and conducting business, trying to<br>
>>>> tie<br>
>>>>>>> every sole proprietorship down with a business license when one may<br>
>>>> not be<br>
>>>>>>> required in many of these jurisdictions seems strange at best.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> In general the law sees Corporations and Individuals as all in the<br>
>>>> same,<br>
>>>>>>> so I?m a little confused as to why ARIN would be ok with doing<br>
>> business<br>
>>>>>>> with a sole proprietor but not an "individual"?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> If the issue is fraud prevention, it seems like a better approach<br>
>> would<br>
>>>>>>> be tying all accounts regardless of whether it is a<br>
>>>> business/individual,<br>
>>>>>>> with a government issued identification document; the trend with<br>
>>>> having an<br>
>>>>>>> officer of a company sign an RSA seems to be a step in the direction<br>
>> in<br>
>>>>>>> tying real people to accounts; assuming the goal here is to ensure<br>
>>>>>>> accountability for resource allocation?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Preston Ursini<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:21?AM, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-owner@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-owner@arin.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
>>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Today's Topics:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>>>>> (<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>)<br>
>>>>>>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran)<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Message: 1<br>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 09:00:26 +0200<br>
>>>>>>> From: "<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>" <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>>>>>>> To: arin-ppml <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382@consulintel.es" target="_blank">9175FF4A-94C3-4021-96CE-44AC5D1DA382@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Hi John,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> A couple of questions on this:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?<br>
>>>>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te<br>
>>>> division<br>
>>>>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping<br>
>>>>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only<br>
>>>> money,<br>
>>>>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present<br>
>>>>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical<br>
>>>> activity),<br>
>>>>>>> is close to ?zero"?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a<br>
>>>>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more<br>
>>>> expensive<br>
>>>>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or<br>
>>>> membership<br>
>>>>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,<br>
>>>> instead<br>
>>>>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of<br>
>>>> course<br>
>>>>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is<br>
>>>> already<br>
>>>>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Regards,<br>
>>>>>>> Jordi<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> @jordipalet<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> escribi?:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Ryan -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few<br>
>> times<br>
>>>>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and<br>
>>>> we do<br>
>>>>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain<br>
>> number<br>
>>>>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,<br>
>>>>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further<br>
>>>>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to<br>
>> be<br>
>>>>>>> solved.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <<a href="mailto:ryan@rkhtech.org" target="_blank">ryan@rkhtech.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are<br>
>>>> under<br>
>>>>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org<br>
>>>> tickets, and<br>
>>>>>>> the legal team.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in<br>
>>>> several<br>
>>>>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing<br>
>>>> ARIN's<br>
>>>>>>> agreements.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Ryan Hamel<br>
>>>>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of David<br>
>> Farmer<br>
>>>>>>> via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM<br>
>>>>>>> To: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take<br>
>>>>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states;<br>
>> if<br>
>>>>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't<br>
>>>> need to<br>
>>>>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,<br>
>>>>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it<br>
>>>> also<br>
>>>>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under<br>
>> the<br>
>>>>>>> owner's name.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that<br>
>> an<br>
>>>>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of<br>
>>>> latitude<br>
>>>>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a<br>
>>>> business<br>
>>>>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures<br>
>>>> don't<br>
>>>>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a><br>
>> <mailto:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a><br>
>>>> <mailto:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Originally<br>
>>>>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed<br>
>>>> by<br>
>>>>>>> this.<br>
>>>>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register<br>
>>>> with<br>
>>>>>>> the Secretary of State.<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with<br>
>>>>>>> Secretary of State database.<br>
>>>>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that<br>
>>>>>>> wasn't good enough.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Paul -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that<br>
>>>> resulted<br>
>>>>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were<br>
>>>> unable to<br>
>>>>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There<br>
>>>> is a<br>
>>>>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all<br>
>>>>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there<br>
>>>> is/was<br>
>>>>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks<br>
>>>> understand<br>
>>>>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> **********************************************<br>
>>>>>>> IPv4 is over<br>
>>>>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>>>>>>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br>
>> or<br>
>>>>>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use<br>
>>>> of<br>
>>>>>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
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>>>>>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not<br>
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>>>>>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br>
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>>>>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>
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>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/59eecf73/attachment-0001.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/59eecf73/attachment-0001.htm</a><br>
>>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Message: 2<br>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:21:30 +0000<br>
>>>>>>> From: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> To: "<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>" <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949@arin.net" target="_blank">19584E59-969A-4EC3-BB29-6500464AF949@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Jordi -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> The representation you seek from ARIN regarding government procedures<br>
>>>>>>> across the the entire region is not possible to make ? and as you<br>
>>>> note, it<br>
>>>>>>> would be meaningless the very next day because such laws and<br>
>>>> regulations<br>
>>>>>>> are outside of ARIN?s control and subject to change. Note that this<br>
>>>> is the<br>
>>>>>>> case regardless of whether speaking of networks run by organizations<br>
>> or<br>
>>>>>>> individuals ? the legal requirements on networks in any given portion<br>
>>>> of<br>
>>>>>>> the ARIN region are not determined by ARIN.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> What we can say is that our customers want us to be reasonably<br>
>> flexible<br>
>>>>>>> in our processes to the extent possible, just as we are with respect<br>
>> to<br>
>>>>>>> confirming whether organizations requesting resources operate within<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN region. We?ve evolved our processes over time to make be more<br>
>>>>>>> straightforward, and this includes handling entities that are<br>
>>>> incorporated,<br>
>>>>>>> those using DBA registrations, sole proprietorships, etc.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Your original query noted that ? In LACNIC we are having a discussion<br>
>>>>>>> because the policy manual only allows to distribute resources to<br>
>>>>>>> ?organizations legally registered? ? ? To be clear, ARIN is<br>
>>>> effectively the<br>
>>>>>>> same, but we are quite flexible in recognition of how our network<br>
>>>> customers<br>
>>>>>>> may go about their legal registration.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks!<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 3:00?AM, jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML <<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Hi John,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> A couple of questions on this:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive?<br>
>>>>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te<br>
>>>> division<br>
>>>>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping<br>
>>>>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only<br>
>>>> money,<br>
>>>>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present<br>
>>>>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical<br>
>>>> activity),<br>
>>>>>>> is close to ?zero"?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a<br>
>>>>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more<br>
>>>> expensive<br>
>>>>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or<br>
>>>> membership<br>
>>>>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions,<br>
>>>> instead<br>
>>>>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of<br>
>>>> course<br>
>>>>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is<br>
>>>> already<br>
>>>>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)?<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Regards,<br>
>>>>>>> Jordi<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> @jordipalet<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> escribi?:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Ryan -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few<br>
>> times<br>
>>>>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and<br>
>>>> we do<br>
>>>>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain<br>
>> number<br>
>>>>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works,<br>
>>>>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further<br>
>>>>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to<br>
>> be<br>
>>>>>>> solved.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <<a href="mailto:ryan@rkhtech.org" target="_blank">ryan@rkhtech.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are<br>
>>>> under<br>
>>>>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org<br>
>>>> tickets, and<br>
>>>>>>> the legal team.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in<br>
>>>> several<br>
>>>>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing<br>
>>>> ARIN's<br>
>>>>>>> agreements.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Ryan Hamel<br>
>>>>>>> ________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of David<br>
>> Farmer<br>
>>>>>>> via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM<br>
>>>>>>> To: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take<br>
>>>>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John,<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states;<br>
>> if<br>
>>>>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't<br>
>>>> need to<br>
>>>>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State,<br>
>>>>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it<br>
>>>> also<br>
>>>>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under<br>
>> the<br>
>>>>>>> owner's name.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that<br>
>> an<br>
>>>>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of<br>
>>>> latitude<br>
>>>>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a<br>
>>>> business<br>
>>>>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures<br>
>>>> don't<br>
>>>>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a><br>
>> <mailto:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a><br>
>>>> <mailto:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Originally<br>
>>>>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed<br>
>>>> by<br>
>>>>>>> this.<br>
>>>>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register<br>
>>>> with<br>
>>>>>>> the Secretary of State.<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with<br>
>>>>>>> Secretary of State database.<br>
>>>>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that<br>
>>>>>>> wasn't good enough.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Paul -<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that<br>
>>>> resulted<br>
>>>>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were<br>
>>>> unable to<br>
>>>>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There<br>
>>>> is a<br>
>>>>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all<br>
>>>>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there<br>
>>>> is/was<br>
>>>>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks<br>
>>>> understand<br>
>>>>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>>>>> /John<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> John Curran<br>
>>>>>>> President and CEO<br>
>>>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> **********************************************<br>
>>>>>>> IPv4 is over<br>
>>>>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
>>>>>>> The IPv6 Company<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged<br>
>> or<br>
>>>>>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use<br>
>>>> of<br>
>>>>>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized<br>
>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this<br>
>>>>>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly<br>
>>>>>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>>>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,<br>
>> distribution<br>
>>>> or<br>
>>>>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including<br>
>>>>>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal<br>
>>>>>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about<br>
>> this<br>
>>>>>>> communication and delete it.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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>>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 17<br>
>>>>>>> ******************************************<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>> ===============================================<br>
>>>>>>> David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
>>>>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>
>>>>>>> Office of Information Technology<br>
>>>>>>> University of Minnesota<br>
>>>>>>> 2218 University Ave SE<br>
>>>>>>> <<br>
>>>> <br>
>> <a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g</a><br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Phone: 612-626-0815<br>
>>>>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>
>>>>>>> ===============================================<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> ===============================================<br>
>>>> David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>
>>>> Office of Information Technology<br>
>>>> University of Minnesota<br>
>>>> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>
>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>
>>>> ===============================================<br>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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>>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 40<br>
>>>> ******************************************<br>
>>>> <br>
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>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>>> <br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>> <br>
>>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 41<br>
>>> ******************************************<br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
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>>> <br>
>> <br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> <br>
>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> <br>
>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 42<br>
>> ******************************************<br>
>> <br>
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> <br>
> ------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
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> <br>
> <br>
> ------------------------------<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
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<br>
End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 44<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>