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<p>Hi Jordi</p>
<p>The eventual cost for it, even in the Latin America Region for
comparison, is negligible, since this model of doing business by
yourself is normally very simplified. Additionally whoever is in
need of resources for various usages may already have some type of
operation with income or gains that justify this minimal spending
to request resources in this legal model mentioned.</p>
<p>Although I see a point in what you say, I don't think there is a
pressuring demand of individuals willing to do this and not being
able due that.<br>
</p>
<p>Yes the point about individuals willing to have their own space
allocation is valid, but there are several operational challenges
that overcome any legal/bureaucratic ones in my view. Ex: getting
a residential broadband connection that establishes a BGP session
with the user.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/04/2025 14:55, jordi.palet--- via
ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6CFFC468-7155-46F5-B8BB-A46C5EBEAB1F@consulintel.es">
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Hi John,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I fully understand your point, however, this is highly
depending on each country regulation, in the case of ARIN it may
be simpler (I think much less countries than for example in
LACNIC or APNIC) and laws, or the way you legalize “the
business” is highly dependent even on possible changes, which
may affect their relationship (even risk of cancelation of
relationship) with the RIR.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Moreover, it means extra cost. Maybe that cost in US and
Canada is negligible, but this is subjective, and subjected to
changes, subjected to different countries, etc. I don’t think it
is logic for a RIR to depend on so many external factors.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also this is excluding an individual not willing to have a
business, but willing to have multihoming with IPv6, with
requires IPv6 PI, in his/her home. Why we want/need to exclude
that? So in this case, he/she will be actually forced achieve
the sole proprietorship. As said, in US and Canada may be si
just a declaration, but not in many other countries. Is not that
enforcing to circumvent the rules? Is that making any sense if
you can actually do it legally? I don’t think so, is only adding
bureaucracy and cost, which again is different in different
countries, so creates a discrimination.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We also need to understand that those individuals that decide
to directly to connect to Internet and as you said “present them
publicly", will only be able to do so via actual operators that
provide them links with BGP, so that already ensures the
operational coordination. In the end is the same for any smaller
ISP, the overall majority of them don’t get in touch with those
hundred thousand global operators, but only with their directly
connected carriers, and anyway, they are engaged in public
activities.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Regards,<br>
Jordi<br>
<br>
@jordipalet<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>El 8 abr 2025, a las 19:26, John Curran
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net"><jcurran@arin.net></a> escribió:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div>
<div>Jordi – </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I note that individuals are private entities,
whereas those who choose to participate in the
Internet’s infrastructure are engaging in activities
that are fundamentally public in nature. That is,
participation carries the potential need for
operational coordination with any of over one
hundred thousand infrastructure operators globally —
in effect, making it a public activity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ARIN requires natural persons to present
themselves publicly in order to hold rights to
number resources. While this can be accomplished
through the formation of a business, it is also
readily achievable — as Bill Herrin noted — in many
countries via a declaration of sole proprietorship,
sole trader status, or similar constructs. This is
not a circumvention of the “organizations only”
principle, but rather an acknowledgment that the
resource holder understands they are engaging in
inherently public activity, even if not conducting
business per se.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>/John</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>John Curran</div>
<div>President and CEO</div>
<div>American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
</div>
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<div><br>
</div>
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<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Apr 8, 2025, at 12:00 PM, jordi.palet---
via ARIN-PPML <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div
style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
The problem/difference is that:
<div>1) Not all the countries in LAC will have
the same legal situation that US and Canada
that seems make it very easy to bypass the
“organizations only”.</div>
<div>2) It many countries it may mean extra
artificial cost.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Setting up “artificial barriers” to avoid
individuals to have resources, is not only
discriminatory, is also silly, because they
can be bypassed with small or no cost in
some countries, but bigger cost in other
countries. No sense. Also that means we
avoid the registries having a few extra
members (note that I don’t think it will be
a lot, but we should facilitate it, instead
of try to avoid it).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The justification is a different problem,
and this is handled by the initial
allocation/assignment policy, not part of
this dicussion. Obviously a small business
with only a single site, will ask a /48 and
if they need more they will need to do a
full justification (just an example).</div>
<div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div>
<div>Regards,<br>
Jordi<br>
<br>
@jordipalet<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>El 8 abr 2025, a las 17:13,
Fernando Frediani
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a> escribió:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>
<p>Therefore it is the same in
LACNIC which works pretty much
similar to what Bill described for
some jurisdictions.<br>
</p>
<p>But more important then this
bureaucracy is that whoever is
requesting the resources be able
to justify the need for them, even
for IPv6-only which is not scarce.
Base should be able to justify the
usage on some operation.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
08/04/2025 11:42, jordi.palet---
via ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:70296046-AE72-4EDC-85AD-0985393084C5@consulintel.es">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">Hi Bill,
Yes, is the same in the EU (at least in Spain), when you have a self-employed, tax declaration is mixed.
The only issue is that even if you have no business, you need to pay a monthly fee (social security, VAT declaration every 3 months, even if no activity, etc.) for keeping up the status of self-employed. Not sure if in US and Canada is the same.
Creating a corporation like the “sloe proprietorship” that you mention, even if the cost is very low, still means that you need to do yearly declarations, etc. Again not sure if in US and Canada is the same.
So I feel that this way in ARIN (and LACNIC) is not good for individuals, because it adds additional cost and burden that is discriminatory. Specially because in other countries (Caribbean) it may be not so easy, and this is the same in LACNIC that has more countries, which may have much different regulations, etc.
The question here is *if* ARIN allowed (before) individuals to get resources, why it changed? it seems to be a step backwards, and decreasing competitiveness o
self-employee and in fact small-medium business.
Tks!
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""
class="moz-quote-pre">El 8 abr 2025, a las 15:57, William Herrin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
moz-do-not-send="true"><bill@herrin.us></a> escribió:
On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 2:01 AM jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""
class="moz-quote-pre">I’m trying to understand if is possible in ARIN for both, a natural person with
an economic activity (not sure if this is also call self-employment in all the
ARIN service countries) and a natural person for its own “private” life, to obtain resources.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""
class="moz-quote-pre">Hi Jordi,
ARIN no longer contracts with natural persons, only businesses.
However, in the U.S. and Canada (I'm not sure about the Caribbean)
it's a trivial matter to establish a "sole proprietorship." Some
states don't even require registration; you simply declare it. In
others it requires filling out a form and paying a small fee. In both
cases, the individual's personal and business finances are mixed
together; there are no separate taxes or accounting or anything like
that. The sole proprietorship is a business which can contract with
ARIN and acquire IP addresses.
Look up AS11875 for an example of how this works.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
--
William Herrin
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
moz-do-not-send="true">bill@herrin.us</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bill.herrin.us/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://bill.herrin.us/</a>
</pre>
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