<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /></head><body><div>There is no definition for lease or leased IPs anywhere in the NRPM. This is getting into the same jargonized problem as before. IF ARIN was to define leasing IPs, then there is an expectation legally that leasing IPs is an "acceptable use" of number resources unless more policy explicitly denies leasing. However, the policy manual as it is now is intentionally vague enough to not argue for or deny leasing IP addresses as an acceptable utilization of resources. Additionally, as an SP, what does a lease look like?<br /><br />I understand this is opening up the proverbial can of worms, but I don't believe these statements can be mutually exclusive.<br /><br /><div dir="ltr" style="mso-line-height-rule:exactly;-webkit-text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:1px;direction:ltr;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:1px;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:5px;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="center" style="padding:0 5px 0 0;border-top:none;border-right:solid 2px #0457A4;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;vertical-align:middle;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="center" style="padding:0 7px 9px 0;vertical-align:middle;"><a href="https://intermaxnetworks.com/" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;"><img src="cid:image600403.png@CA04D0E9.EF24B879" width="150" height="50" border="0" title="Intermax Networks" alt="Intermax Networks" style="width:150px;min-width:150px;max-width:150px;height:50px;min-height:50px;max-height:50px;font-size:12px;" /></a></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 3px 5px;vertical-align:middle;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 0 6px;vertical-align:middle;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:bottom;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:normal;color:#000001;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:700;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:14.67px;"><tr style="font-size:13.5px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">Dustin Moses<span style="font-family:remialcxesans;font-size:1px;color:#FFFFFF;line-height:1px;"></span></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:bottom;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">Network Engineer II</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:4px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:3px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:13.33px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';"><span style="color:#0457A4;font-size:14.67px;">o:</span> <a href="tel:208-762-8065" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;color:#808080;">208-762-8065</a></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:13.33px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';"> </td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:13.33px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';"><span style="color:#0457A4;font-weight:700;">d:</span> (208) 758‑0489</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';"><span style="color:#0457A4;font-weight:700;">w:</span> <a href="http://intermaxnetworks.com/" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;color:#808080;">intermaxnetworks.com</a></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#0457A4;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:14.67px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">a: </td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">7400 N Mineral Drive Suite 300</td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:11px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">, </td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">Coeur d'Alene</td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:11px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">, </td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">ID</td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:14.67px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';"> <br /></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#808080;font-size:14.67px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-weight:400;font-style:normal;text-align:left;line-height:16px;"><tr style="font-size:13.33px;"><td style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">83815</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:8px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="center" style="padding:0 7px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><a href="https://twitter.com/imaxnetworks" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;"><img src="cid:image328530.png@D80832A6.520DC398" width="11" height="11" border="0" title="Twitter" alt="Twitter" style="width:11px;min-width:11px;max-width:11px;height:11px;min-height:11px;max-height:11px;font-size:12px;" /></a></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="center" style="padding:0 7px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ImaxNetworks/" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;"><img src="cid:image091328.png@2375AC57.89EAEBFE" width="11" height="11" border="0" title="Facebook" alt="Facebook" style="width:11px;min-width:11px;max-width:11px;height:11px;min-height:11px;max-height:11px;font-size:12px;" /></a></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="center" style="padding:0 7px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><a href="https://linkedin.com/company/intermaxnetworks" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;"><img src="cid:image022400.png@26CD187F.0ED91CFA" width="11" height="11" border="0" title="LinkedIn" alt="LinkedIn" style="width:11px;min-width:11px;max-width:11px;height:11px;min-height:11px;max-height:11px;font-size:12px;" /></a></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div>-----Original Message-----<br />From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> On Behalf Of arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br />Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 6:16 AM<br />To: arin-ppml@arin.net<br />Subject: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 216, Issue 35<br /><br />Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br /> arin-ppml@arin.net<br /><br />To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br /> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br />or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br /> arin-ppml-request@arin.net<br /><br />You can reach the person managing the list at<br /> arin-ppml-owner@arin.net<br /><br />When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br /><br /><br />Today's Topics:<br /><br /> 1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist<br /> agreement to include a restriction on leasing (Owen DeLong)<br /> 2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist<br /> agreement to include a restriction on leasing (Ron Grant)<br /> 3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist<br /> agreement to include a restriction on leasing (William Herrin)<br /> 4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4 allocation for<br /> IXPs (Matt Peterson)<br /> 5. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4 allocation for<br /> IXPs (Bill Woodcock)<br /> 6. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4 allocation for<br /> IXPs (David Farmer)<br /><br /><br />----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 1<br />Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 21:44:58 -0700<br />From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com><br />To: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us><br />Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net<br />Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the<br /> waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing<br />Message-ID: <79BF00CF-E7BC-471F-A234-F77E1BEECCCD@delong.com><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br /><br />What if the registrant issues the addresses to downstream BGP customers?<br /><br />Owen<br /><br /><br />> On Jun 20, 2023, at 15:16, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:<br />> <br />> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 8:54?AM ARIN <info@arin.net> wrote:<br />>> Address space distributed from the waitlist will not be eligible for lease or transfer, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers, for a period of 60 months.<br />> <br />> Fuzzy language. What is leasing? Suggest something more like:<br />> <br />> "If announced on the public Internet, address space distributed from <br />> the waitlist shall be announced only by the direct ARIN registrant <br />> until 60 months after receipt."<br />> <br />> Regards,<br />> Bill Herrin<br />> <br />> --<br />> William Herrin<br />> bill@herrin.us<br />> https://bill.herrin.us/<br />> _______________________________________________<br />> ARIN-PPML<br />> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN <br />> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br />> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br />> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br />> Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br /><br /><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 2<br />Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:26:12 -0700<br />From: Ron Grant <ron+arin-ppml@balansoft.com><br />To: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us><br />Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net<br />Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the<br /> waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing<br />Message-ID: <eb2d9e3b-9e31-4c3f-c90e-a7c0a206eba4@balansoft.com><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br /><br />That's not a lease, in the sense that's of concern. "Downstream" implies a connection. Let's call that "rent".<br /><br />ISPs "rent" IP blocks all the time - even for their own customers. <br />$10/mo for a static IP address instead of a DHCP assigned one - a practice as old as the hills.<br /><br />And business-based Internet is almost always a statically assigned CIDR subnet - for example one client of mine assigns a /29 for free, and charges an additional $1/ip for larger networks. That's rent. (ya I know, IANAL and the acronym speaks volumes)<br /><br />Seems to me the thing that's got everyone tied in a knot is the idea of allowing someone to lease out a wait-listed network to someone with whom YOU HAVE NO OTHER BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP.<br /><br />How to define that? Maybe "arm's length".....<br /><br />https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arm%27s_length#:~:text=?Arm%27s%20length?%20is%20an%20expression,and%20in%20their%20self%2Dinterest.<br /><br /><br /><br />On 2023-06-20 9:44 p.m., Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML wrote:<br />> What if the registrant issues the addresses to downstream BGP customers?<br />><br />> Owen<br />><br />><br />>> On Jun 20, 2023, at 15:16, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:<br />>><br />>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 8:54?AM ARIN <info@arin.net> wrote:<br />>>> Address space distributed from the waitlist will not be eligible for lease or transfer, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers, for a period of 60 months.<br />>> Fuzzy language. What is leasing? Suggest something more like:<br />>><br />>> "If announced on the public Internet, address space distributed from <br />>> the waitlist shall be announced only by the direct ARIN registrant <br />>> until 60 months after receipt."<br />>><br />>> Regards,<br />>> Bill Herrin<br />>><br />>> --<br />>> William Herrin<br />>> bill@herrin.us<br />>> https://bill.herrin.us/<br />>> _______________________________________________<br />>> ARIN-PPML<br />>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN <br />>> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br />>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br />>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br />>> Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br />> _______________________________________________<br />> ARIN-PPML<br />> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN <br />> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br />> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br />> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br />> Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br /><br />--<br />Ron Grant<br />Balan Software/Networks<br />Network Architecture & Programming<br />604-737-2113<br /><br />ca.linkedin.com/in/obiron<br /><br /><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 3<br />Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 23:16:46 -0700<br />From: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us><br />To: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com><br />Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net<br />Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the<br /> waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing<br />Message-ID:<br /> <CAP-guGW-cyx0hJEugGu0dpuph9F1qkrgO+CXhzLLnpYaKjsjgQ@mail.gmail.com><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br /><br />On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 9:45?PM Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:<br />> What if the registrant issues the addresses to downstream BGP customers?<br /><br />They sat through the waitlist for years, not buying addresses at market since that would have kicked them off the waitlist, and then when they finally got their, what, /22 or so, they decided to use them for a downstream BGP customer?<br /><br />Pull the other one.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Bill Herrin<br /><br /><br />--<br />William Herrin<br />bill@herrin.us<br />https://bill.herrin.us/<br /><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 4<br />Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2023 01:18:55 -0700<br />From: Matt Peterson <matt@peterson.org><br />To: arin-ppml@arin.net<br />Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4<br /> allocation for IXPs<br />Message-ID:<br /> <CAFN0R27ach9zuLrPufDsx-kbXGfd=EyTpZuOVriieGg3mmPhsQ@mail.gmail.com><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br /><br />It's clear this proposal did not receive feedback from those of us<br />who operate IXP's *(or those who lived through the ep.net <http://ep.net><br />era).* Renumbering events are often multi-year efforts for an IXP, this<br />"savings" is not worth the operational overhead. I'm not in support of this<br />proposal. This is a solution looking for a problem, we have both the<br />appropriate pool size and a method to refill.<br /><br />If anything, the 4.4 requirement language around *"other participants<br />(minimum of three total)" *could use some attention. ARIN's service region<br />has many "shadow IXP's", which may have 3 unique ASN's *(say a route<br />server, route collector, and management network) *- but are all operated by<br />the same organization. That does not seem like a legitimate definition of<br />an exchange point, especially when that operator is the only participant<br />over several years.<br /><br />--Matt<br /><br />On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 8:54?AM ARIN <info@arin.net> wrote:<br /><br />> On 15 June 2023, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted ?ARIN-prop-320:<br />> /26 initial IPv4 allocation for IXPs? as a Draft Policy.<br />><br />> Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2 is below and can be found at:<br />><br />> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2023_2<br />><br />-------------- next part --------------<br />An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br />URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20230621/f272018f/attachment-0001.htm><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 5<br />Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2023 12:54:03 +0200<br />From: Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net><br />To: Douglas Haber via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net><br />Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4<br /> allocation for IXPs<br />Message-ID: <D4C6F56A-3B02-468B-B317-0383FBD93E5B@pch.net><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br /><br /><br /><br />> On Jun 21, 2023, at 10:18 AM, Matt Peterson <matt@peterson.org> wrote:<br />> It's clear this proposal did not receive feedback from those of us who operate IXP's (or those who lived through the ep.net era). Renumbering events are often multi-year efforts for an IXP, this "savings" is not worth the operational overhead. I'm not in support of this proposal. This is a solution looking for a problem, we have both the appropriate pool size and a method to refill.<br />> If anything, the 4.4 requirement language around "other participants (minimum of three total)" could use some attention. ARIN's service region has many "shadow IXP's", which may have 3 unique ASN's (say a route server, route collector, and management network) - but are all operated by the same organization. That does not seem like a legitimate definition of an exchange point, especially when that operator is the only participant over several years.<br /><br />I would just chime in to say that I definitely agree with the first of Matt?s points. IXPs rarely know how long it will be until they need a larger address space, and when they do, it?s typically too late to renumber hundreds of different organizations. This policy would create a vast amount of unnecessary work for ARIN members, while yielding no obvious benefit to anyone.<br /><br />As regards what constitutes a ?real? IXP, that?s a tougher question. While Matt is undoubtedly correct that Andrew?s Basement Exchange, the canonical example, may not have three unrelated participants at the time they apply, that?s also true, at the outset, of many IXPs which follow a sure-footed path to success. And it?s not possible to know in advance, in any sort of replicable policy way, which will ultimately succeed, and which fail. I guess my thought on this is to be liberal in distributing, and also relatively quick to reclaim when an IXP goes defunct. Over the last 31 years, 34% of all IXPs that were established, went defunct. Many took years or decades to fail, but once they have, there?s no reason for those allocations to persist. Most IXPs are one-off, a group of ISPs who get together to form an IXP in a specific location. A few consist of a single organization spanning multiple unconnected locations? When those organizations are for-profit startups, I guess I woul<br /> d evaluate their claims carefully, and do a slow-start, rather than allowing them to use the policy to get a /24 for every new claimed location, in advance of proving themselves.<br /><br /> -Bill<br /><br /><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 6<br />Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2023 08:15:47 -0500<br />From: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu><br />To: Matt Peterson <matt@peterson.org><br />Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net<br />Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4<br /> allocation for IXPs<br />Message-ID:<br /> <CAN-Dau1HsnbqA=j3jNQkmSHaSTsLNu0Sj1JiSFnbWj8mO=HOug@mail.gmail.com><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br /><br />Actually, I expect the genesis of this proposal was the very similar<br />proposal in the RIPE community RIPE-2023-02 Reducing IXP IPv4 assignment<br />default size to a /26. That proposal followed a presentation at RIPE 86<br />last fall and a discussion on their address-policy-wg mailing late last<br />year. The conversation started with a reduction to /29, and a reasonable<br />compromise of /26 that was written in to a formal proposal earlier this<br />year. That proposal is progressing through their process and just finished<br />their Discussion Phase last week, and has entered their Review Phase, and<br />at least seems to be heading towards being policy in the RIPE community.<br /><br />While I do not support this proposal, especially as written, it is<br />nevertheless an important and timely conversation for the ARIN community to<br />have and I for one appreciate it being brought forward to our community as<br />a proposal.<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 03:19 Matt Peterson <matt@peterson.org> wrote:<br /><br />> It's clear this proposal did not receive feedback from those of us<br />> who operate IXP's *(or those who lived through the ep.net <http://ep.net><br />> era).* Renumbering events are often multi-year efforts for an IXP, this<br />> "savings" is not worth the operational overhead. I'm not in support of this<br />> proposal. This is a solution looking for a problem, we have both the<br />> appropriate pool size and a method to refill.<br />><br />> If anything, the 4.4 requirement language around *"other participants<br />> (minimum of three total)" *could use some attention. ARIN's service<br />> region has many "shadow IXP's", which may have 3 unique ASN's *(say a<br />> route server, route collector, and management network) *- but are all<br />> operated by the same organization. That does not seem like a legitimate<br />> definition of an exchange point, especially when that operator is the only<br />> participant over several years.<br />><br />> --Matt<br />><br />> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 8:54?AM ARIN <info@arin.net> wrote:<br />><br />>> On 15 June 2023, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted ?ARIN-prop-320:<br />>> /26 initial IPv4 allocation for IXPs? as a Draft Policy.<br />>><br />>> Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2 is below and can be found at:<br />>><br />>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2023_2<br />>><br />> _______________________________________________<br />> ARIN-PPML<br />> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br />> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br />> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br />> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br />> Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br />><br />-- <br />===============================================<br />David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu<br />Networking & Telecommunication Services<br />Office of Information Technology<br />University of Minnesota<br />2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br />Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br />===============================================<br />-------------- next part --------------<br />An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br />URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20230621/da859b3f/attachment.htm><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Subject: Digest Footer<br /><br />_______________________________________________<br />ARIN-PPML mailing list<br />ARIN-PPML@arin.net<br />https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br /><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 216, Issue 35<br />******************************************<br /></div></body></html>