<html><head></head><body><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr" style="mso-line-height-rule:exactly;-webkit-text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:1px;direction:ltr;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:1px;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:10px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 15px;vertical-align:top;"><img src="cid:image256250.png@008B4FB0.054831BE" border="0" alt="" style="font-size:0;" /></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:10px;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:100%;font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:middle;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width:135px;font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 4px 3px;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#2B2B2B;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;font-weight:700;font-style:normal;text-align:left;width:150px;"><tr style="font-size:20px;"><td style="font-family:Arial;">Matt Harris<span style="font-family:remialcxesans;font-size:1px;color:#FFFFFF;line-height:1px;"></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="vertical-align:bottom;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:5px 0 0 3px;vertical-align:bottom;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="white-space:nowrap;color:#6B6C78;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial;font-weight:700;font-style:normal;text-align:left;width:0;"><tr style="font-size:12px;"><td style="font-family:Arial;">VP OF INFRASTRUCTURE</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:20px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" 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cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;color:#2B2B2B;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;line-height:normal;white-space:nowrap;"><tr style="font-size:13px;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;font-size:0;"><img src="cid:image149834.png@FAC6B788.DED13E86" height="28" border="0" alt="" style="height:28px;min-height:28px;max-height:28px;font-size:0;" /></td><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 0 10px;vertical-align:middle;font-family:Arial;"><a href="mailto:matt.harris@netfire.net" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;color:#2B2B2B;"><strong style="font-weight:400;">matt.harris@netfire.net</strong></a></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0 20px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;line-height:normal;"><tr style="font-size:0;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;"><img src="cid:image544315.png@8F8DD3C2.BC52979B" height="28" border="0" alt="" style="height:28px;min-height:28px;max-height:28px;font-size:0;" /></td><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 0 10px;vertical-align:middle;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;color:#2B2B2B;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;white-space:nowrap;"><tr style="font-size:13px;"><td align="left" style="padding:3px 0;vertical-align:middle;font-family:Arial;"><span dir="ltr" style="direction:ltr;"><a href="tel:816-256-5446" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;color:#2B2B2B;"><strong style="font-weight:400;">816-256-5446</strong></a></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:0;color:#576576;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;line-height:normal;white-space:nowrap;"><tr style="font-size:13px;"><td align="left" style="padding:0;vertical-align:top;font-size:0;"><img src="cid:image571768.png@68E390B1.E320FAA0" height="28" border="0" alt="" style="height:28px;min-height:28px;max-height:28px;font-size:0;" /></td><td align="left" style="padding:0 0 0 10px;vertical-align:middle;font-family:Arial;"><a href="https://www.netfire.com/" target="_blank" id="LPlnk689713" style="text-decoration:none;color:#2B2B2B;"><strong style="font-weight:400;">www.netfire.com</strong></a></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div>On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 7:37 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">If there are not enough incentives already let's create more then. We, as a community in a bottom up process as responsible for creating them based on what is right and fair to most people.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Use the excuse that the broker market is happing is not enough to try pretend things like leasing is a correct thing. It is not and will never be, despite the need some may have. It is fundamentally wrong allow assign addresses to those who can pay more rather than necessarily to those who justify for them.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We, as a community can adjust the rules in order to create more incentives for unused spaces to be returned to ARIN so it can reassign to those who really justify and will use them to build real Internet, based on fair and neutral rules not just to speculate and profit from it.</div><div dir="auto">We can have all the basis to support ARIN legally to revoke unused space that to be returned therefore if it is not in use (being leased for example) then it must be returned.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Doesn't matter if that ended up happing here and there. If that is morally wrong, a distrotion to the system and should not been done then any necessary policy to support ARIN to revoke addresses where necessary and reassign to those who really justify should be created for that.</div><div dir="auto">We cannot prentend that is fine just because some a minority still beleive it should be allowed to profit from something someone doesn't own and that is in need for others to fulfil its main propose and build Internet.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Fernando</div></div></div>ssues.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hey Fernando,</div><div>I'm interested in hearing what sort of things we as a community could do to create incentives to return v4 space to the RIRs. Right now, there's essentially none, but I don't have any good ideas here myself. As far ad adjusting rules to allow ARIN to simply reclaim space at will, absent egregious misbehavior, I think this creates a huge minefield of potential issues. Should ARIN revoke a /24 that's being used in such a way that only a single address is in use? What if the organization only needs a single anycast endpoint and they're using that /24 for that purpose? How do you decide when and where to simply revoke an LIR's allocations or an end-user's direct assignments? This is probably also a legal minefield in addition to being an ethical/moral minefield. </div><div><br></div><div>- mdh</div><div><br></div></div></div>
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