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    <p>Good question David, but I don't think that is too hard.<br>
      <br>
      If an organization (a legal entity) has any IPv4 blocks assigned
      to it, regardless of the usage it would not be eligible already
      and that eliminates the vast majority of cases which sounds good.
      Any common-traditional new company that has entered into the
      Internet industry to connect people or provide any type of
      hosting/cloud services. Of course that would be questions around
      new companies that belong to the same economic group of another
      one who has IPv4 space and that needs to be worked out properly.<br>
      Sometimes when we discuss proposals here I feel that sometimes is
      wished to foresee absolutely every possible scenario and that is
      not always possible but it is still a big gain from preventing
      most of unfair or unnecessary situations.</p>
    <p>I almost agree that the 60-month restriction is already good to
      function as indefinite in practice, but a improvement to the
      mentioned proposal is that it makes impossible to transfer that
      space received from the waiting list to any other organization and
      forces it to be returned to ARIN that has the ability to better
      and more neutral and fairly assign it to someone else in the
      future when the situation worse.</p>
    <p>Finally the size of the block received should stay at maximum of
      /22. As mentioned reducing it would make it useless for most
      cases, contributes even more to increase the size of the routing
      tables faster, makes it nearly impossible to do any proper traffic
      engineering in some situations and it allows these newcomers to
      come to a minimum size where they can reach cruising speed that
      they can have financial capability to decide for a necessary
      transfer or invest in technology that makes better usages of that
      fewer space they have.</p>
    <p>Fernando Frediani<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/11/2022 20:35, David Farmer
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAN-Dau0cTaowxhV_z9QecK9PE=asx6Y-o_1sh1wRmXSnuSx8Ww@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div>Conceptually, as an abstract idea, I have no problem with
          restricting the waiting list to newcomers only. However, the
          implementation of such a restriction could prove problematic;
          What is a true newcomer? How do we prevent gaming of this
          restriction?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The current 60-month restriction on transfers is already
          functionally indefinite, at least in my option.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Finally, the waiting list was never intended as a viable
          option to meet a network's need for resources; its purpose in
          policy is to ensure ARIN has a mechanism to distribute any
          IPv4 resources that are reclaimed or otherwise become
          available to ARIN.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks.</div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:09
            PM Fernando Frediani <<a
              href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div>
              <p>Then need to detail and analyze what sound unreasonable
                in changing 5 years period to indefinite.</p>
              <p>Reducing the request size to anything smaller than an
                /22 is giving a such small and useless space that will
                probably make no difference to whoever receives it. A
                /22 is already a very small amount (almost symbolic) but
                at least gives the ability to a newer organizations to
                work with something, get into the market, innovate,
                reach some proper size and then invest in different
                technologies to make better usage of few IPv4 and deploy
                IPv6 properly in order to keep existing in the market.
                Plus giving out /24-only to organizations in the waiting
                list would contribute even more to increase the size of
                the routing table with very little gain.<br>
              </p>
              <p>A change in the waiting-list rules that would be
                certainly be welcome is restrict it only to newcomers
                that have no IPv4 space at all. Those who already have
                had already enough time to learn live with what they
                have and organize themselves to either do IPv4 transfers
                and deploy IPv6 in order to reduce its dependency
                whenever possible.</p>
              <p>Fernando<br>
              </p>
              <div>On 14/11/2022 19:53, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div dir="ltr">I reviewed the Policy Implementation
                    and Experience Report presented at ARIN 50;
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/materials/1020_policyimplementation.pdf"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/materials/1020_policyimplementation.pdf</a><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruDSG32D0M&list=PL726kQ53RX6i-x05T2JLckh59gWtLs1TR&t=5569s"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruDSG32D0M&list=PL726kQ53RX6i-x05T2JLckh59gWtLs1TR&t=5569s</a><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/day1_transcript/#policy-implementation-and-experience-report"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/day1_transcript/#policy-implementation-and-experience-report</a><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>I don't support any changes to the
                      transfer provisions of the waiting list. The
                      current transfer provisions seem reasonable to me.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>However, if I were going to support any changes
                      to the waiting list, I would support reducing the
                      request size from /22 to /24.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Thanks.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 14,
                      2022 at 3:42 PM WOOD Alison * DAS <<a
                        href="mailto:Alison.WOOD@das.oregon.gov"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Alison.WOOD@das.oregon.gov</a>>
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Hello!</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">The Policy Experience
                              Report Working Group has been working on
                              the Policy Experience Report from ARIN
                              50.  I would appreciate your feedback on
                              the following issue regarding transferring
                              waitlist space.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">The current wait list
                              criteria is:</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <ul type="disc">
                              <li> Must have a /20 or less in total IPv4
                                holdings.</li>
                              <li> May request up to a /22.</li>
                              <li> Removed from list if IPv4 received
                                via 8.3/8.4 transfer.</li>
                              <li> Received ip space is eligible for
                                needs-based transfer after five years.</li>
                            </ul>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">The Policy Experience
                              Working Group would like your feedback on
                              a potential policy that would restrict the
                              transfer of IP space that has been
                              obtained from the waiting list.  In other
                              words, any IP address space received from
                              the waiting list would be ineligible for
                              transfer indefinitely and encouraged to be
                              returned to ARIN if not in use.  This
                              policy would be specific to transfers and
                              not M & A’s.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">The working group
                              appreciates your feedback.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Thank you!</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
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                  -- <br>
                  <div dir="ltr">===============================================<br>
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                      href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu"
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        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">===============================================<br>
          David Farmer               <a
            href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
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