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<p>Good question David, but I don't think that is too hard.<br>
<br>
If an organization (a legal entity) has any IPv4 blocks assigned
to it, regardless of the usage it would not be eligible already
and that eliminates the vast majority of cases which sounds good.
Any common-traditional new company that has entered into the
Internet industry to connect people or provide any type of
hosting/cloud services. Of course that would be questions around
new companies that belong to the same economic group of another
one who has IPv4 space and that needs to be worked out properly.<br>
Sometimes when we discuss proposals here I feel that sometimes is
wished to foresee absolutely every possible scenario and that is
not always possible but it is still a big gain from preventing
most of unfair or unnecessary situations.</p>
<p>I almost agree that the 60-month restriction is already good to
function as indefinite in practice, but a improvement to the
mentioned proposal is that it makes impossible to transfer that
space received from the waiting list to any other organization and
forces it to be returned to ARIN that has the ability to better
and more neutral and fairly assign it to someone else in the
future when the situation worse.</p>
<p>Finally the size of the block received should stay at maximum of
/22. As mentioned reducing it would make it useless for most
cases, contributes even more to increase the size of the routing
tables faster, makes it nearly impossible to do any proper traffic
engineering in some situations and it allows these newcomers to
come to a minimum size where they can reach cruising speed that
they can have financial capability to decide for a necessary
transfer or invest in technology that makes better usages of that
fewer space they have.</p>
<p>Fernando Frediani<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/11/2022 20:35, David Farmer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAN-Dau0cTaowxhV_z9QecK9PE=asx6Y-o_1sh1wRmXSnuSx8Ww@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Conceptually, as an abstract idea, I have no problem with
restricting the waiting list to newcomers only. However, the
implementation of such a restriction could prove problematic;
What is a true newcomer? How do we prevent gaming of this
restriction?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The current 60-month restriction on transfers is already
functionally indefinite, at least in my option.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Finally, the waiting list was never intended as a viable
option to meet a network's need for resources; its purpose in
policy is to ensure ARIN has a mechanism to distribute any
IPv4 resources that are reclaimed or otherwise become
available to ARIN.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:09
PM Fernando Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Then need to detail and analyze what sound unreasonable
in changing 5 years period to indefinite.</p>
<p>Reducing the request size to anything smaller than an
/22 is giving a such small and useless space that will
probably make no difference to whoever receives it. A
/22 is already a very small amount (almost symbolic) but
at least gives the ability to a newer organizations to
work with something, get into the market, innovate,
reach some proper size and then invest in different
technologies to make better usage of few IPv4 and deploy
IPv6 properly in order to keep existing in the market.
Plus giving out /24-only to organizations in the waiting
list would contribute even more to increase the size of
the routing table with very little gain.<br>
</p>
<p>A change in the waiting-list rules that would be
certainly be welcome is restrict it only to newcomers
that have no IPv4 space at all. Those who already have
had already enough time to learn live with what they
have and organize themselves to either do IPv4 transfers
and deploy IPv6 in order to reduce its dependency
whenever possible.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>On 14/11/2022 19:53, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I reviewed the Policy Implementation
and Experience Report presented at ARIN 50;
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/materials/1020_policyimplementation.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/materials/1020_policyimplementation.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruDSG32D0M&list=PL726kQ53RX6i-x05T2JLckh59gWtLs1TR&t=5569s"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruDSG32D0M&list=PL726kQ53RX6i-x05T2JLckh59gWtLs1TR&t=5569s</a><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/day1_transcript/#policy-implementation-and-experience-report"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/ARIN50/day1_transcript/#policy-implementation-and-experience-report</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't support any changes to the
transfer provisions of the waiting list. The
current transfer provisions seem reasonable to me.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, if I were going to support any changes
to the waiting list, I would support reducing the
request size from /22 to /24.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 14,
2022 at 3:42 PM WOOD Alison * DAS <<a
href="mailto:Alison.WOOD@das.oregon.gov"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Alison.WOOD@das.oregon.gov</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Policy Experience
Report Working Group has been working on
the Policy Experience Report from ARIN
50. I would appreciate your feedback on
the following issue regarding transferring
waitlist space.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The current wait list
criteria is:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ul type="disc">
<li> Must have a /20 or less in total IPv4
holdings.</li>
<li> May request up to a /22.</li>
<li> Removed from list if IPv4 received
via 8.3/8.4 transfer.</li>
<li> Received ip space is eligible for
needs-based transfer after five years.</li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Policy Experience
Working Group would like your feedback on
a potential policy that would restrict the
transfer of IP space that has been
obtained from the waiting list. In other
words, any IP address space received from
the waiting list would be ineligible for
transfer indefinitely and encouraged to be
returned to ARIN if not in use. This
policy would be specific to transfers and
not M & A’s.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The working group
appreciates your feedback.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">===============================================<br>
David Farmer <a
href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>
Office of Information Technology<br>
University of Minnesota <br>
2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>
=============================================== </div>
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<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
ARIN-PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">===============================================<br>
David Farmer <a
href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>
Office of Information Technology<br>
University of Minnesota <br>
2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>
=============================================== </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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