<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 31, 2022, at 15:03, Matt Erculiani <merculiani@gmail.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr">I fully stand by my comments made in-person. I do not support this policy. <div><br></div><div>I do not believe making this data harder to access particularly benefits anyone. If this is a technical challenge that ARIN faces serving this data at the volume it is requested, perhaps system augmentation is necessary to support the query load. Perhaps a much lower threshold for throttling might be a better, cheaper, option. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>This wouldn’t make the data any more difficult to access, just eliminates yet another duplication of data that tends to drift out of date.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>If the concern is that there are some "top-talkers" using this field to construct prefix filters or similar with automation, perhaps ARIN can petition those organizations directly to use the bulk feed, instead of just taking it away and forcing their hand. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I don’t think this is about burdens on ARIN’s whois servers. This is about the fact that this source of this data is largely deprecated and that</div><div>as an optional field, it tends to be poorly maintained (if it gets maintained at all). There are much better sources available.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>Worst case scenario, those who previously relied on this field ignore the guidance, as they have been, may introduce additional queries per second to get around the missing data, further exacerbating the problem this policy set out to fix.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I think what you are considering the “problem this policy set out to fix” is a second order effect at best. I view this policy as a database cleanup</div><div>effort and as such, I support it.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>I don't think everyone on the Internet would come away from this completely unscathed. If we're lucky, the fallout will be fairly isolated.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I doubt that there will be much damage beyond what already occurs if anyone relies on this data. IMHO, no data is better than bad data.</div><div>Today, that field is largely bad data, where it provides data at all.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>-Matt</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:07 AM ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg3996538221474962470"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="m_3996538221474962470WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">On 21 October 2022, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced the following Draft Policy to Recommended Draft Policy status:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">* ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous System Originations’ Field</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The text of the Recommended Draft Policy is below, and may also be found at:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_8/" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_8/</a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">You are encouraged to discuss all Recommended Draft Policies on PPML prior to their presentation at the next ARIN Public Policy Consultation (PPC). PPML and PPC discussions are invaluable to the AC when determining community consensus.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The PDP can be found at:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Sean Hopkins</p><p class="MsoNormal">Senior Policy Analyst</p><p class="MsoNormal">American Registry for Internet Numbers</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal">Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the ‘Autonomous System Originations’ Field</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">AC Assessment of Conformance with the Principles of Internet Number Resource Policy:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Based on community feedback and AC discussion we motion to move ARIN-2021-8: Deprecation of the 'Autonomous System Originations' Field to Recommended Draft, with the following change to Language: The removal of 'OriginAs' fields from December 31st 2024 to 24 months after board adoption.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Problem Statement:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">In the last two decades, ARIN has developed multiple services which provide mechanisms for Internet Number Resource holders to publish information about their routing intentions.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The optional 'OriginAS' field was invented before RPKI existed in practice. At that time, ARIN's Internet Routing Registry (IRR) followed a weak authorization model compared to available and in use today such as RPKI. The 'OriginAS' data was an improvement compared the other mechanisms that were available at that time.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">However, there are issues with the consumption of the data in the OriginAS field:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Consuming the 'OriginAS' field in a high-scale automated pipeline is challenging. The consumer needs to enter into a 'Bulk Whois Data' agreement with ARIN, download a multiple-gigabytes XML file (which is only generated once a day), parse this XML file, and then extract the OriginAS field. Querying objects one-by-one via the HTTPS interface does not scale well.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Policy statement:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">1. Remove Section 3.5 “Autonomous System Originations” of the NRPM in its entirety.</p><p class="MsoNormal">2. Remove the ‘OriginAS’ field from the database </p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Timetable for implementation:</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">1. Removal of section 3.5: Immediate after ARIN Board adoption.</p><p class="MsoNormal">2. Removal of the ‘OriginAS’ field from the database: 24 months after ARIN Board adoption.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Policy Term: Permanent</p></div></div>
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</div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Matt Erculiani<div>ERCUL-ARIN</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml<br>Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>