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<p>Hello Martin</p>
<p>Why does it matter for the discussion of this proposal here in
ARIN to follow its normal way ?<br>
It has been clarified already the intention is not to present it
as a Global Policy and other proposals have been presented in
other RIRs already but not all, so if it doesn't happen in all 5
it doesn't really matter for it to reach consensus in ARIN alone.
Also even if it is presented in all five each one follow its own
process and it may reach consensus in one but not in another.</p>
<p>Hope it helps to clarify it.<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 13/09/2022 09:44, Martin Hannigan
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMDXq5M+kPLvpbyFh0Oq8p5s9tt5e+ousdq=r9ereEJn8pXanQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry to harp on this, but procedurally, for your
reference below. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.arin.net/vault/announcements/2009/20090622.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/vault/announcements/2009/20090622.html</a></div>
<div><a
href="https://www.arin.net/vault/about_us/ac/ac2011_0128.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/vault/about_us/ac/ac2011_0128.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You can search ["globally coordinated policy" ARIN ] in
your favorite search tool and find many references over the
years regarding "globally coordinated" policy, policy which
may fit for all RIR's but isn't a suitable action the IANA
can apply to RIR's.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You said this:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span lang="EN-US">In other RIRs, the leasing of
addresses is not authorized either and since it is not
explicit in their policy manuals either, this proposal
will be presented as well."</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US">Which still isn't clear on what your
intention is. If you intend to submit this same policy to
all five RIR regions its all good.</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US">-M<</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at
10:10 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <<a
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="msg-625805378633413341">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="ES">
<div class="m_-625805378633413341WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US">I don’t think there is such thing
(formally speaking), and is not.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
12/9/22, 14:24, "Martin Hannigan" <<a
href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">hannigan@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 08:02 JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <<a
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor
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solid;border-width:medium medium medium
1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
class="m_-625805378633413341m7700879795930727327estilocorreo18"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Hi Martin,</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
class="m_-625805378633413341m7700879795930727327estilocorreo18"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
class="m_-625805378633413341m7700879795930727327estilocorreo18"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">No,
is not a global policy, they are only
meant for IANA-RIR matters.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">We
just mention what is the actual
situation in other RIRs, also because we
have submitted similar policies, but as
we all know, it may happen in one region
and not in others.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">A
globally coordinated policy is one intended to
be adopted similarly across the 5 RIR’s. A
global policy is intended for application to
the 5 RIRs by the IANA. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Is
it either? It certainly does sound like it is
the former. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor
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solid;border-width:medium medium medium
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 12/9/22,
13:55, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Martin
Hannigan" <<a
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
en nombre de <a
href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">hannigan@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Very
confusing. If this is to proceed it
needs to be substantially boiled down
to what it may be intended to mean. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">However, is
the author saying this is to be a
globally coordinated policy?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">“ In other
RIRs, the leasing of addresses is not
authorized either and since it is not
explicit in their policy manuals either,
this proposal will be presented as
well.”</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">This should
be clearer. There are subtle
implications like expecting closely
aligned text across regions. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Before
expending tons of energy on a
coordinated policy, early feedback is a
good predictor of outcome and shouldn't
be taken lightly. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Thanks —</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">On Tue,
Aug 23, 2022 at 12:29 ARIN <<a
href="mailto:info@arin.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-color:currentcolor
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none none solid;border-width:medium
medium medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">On 18 August
2022, the ARIN Advisory
Council (AC) accepted
"ARIN-prop-308: Leasing Not
Intended" as a Draft Policy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Draft Policy
ARIN-2022-9 is below and can
be found at:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">You are
encouraged to discuss all
Draft Policies on PPML. The AC
will evaluate the discussion
to assess the conformance of
this draft policy with ARIN's
Principles of Internet number
resource policy as stated in
the Policy Development Process
(PDP). Specifically, these
principles are:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">* Enabling Fair
and Impartial Number Resource
Administration</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">* Technically
Sound</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">* Supported by
the Community</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">The PDP can be
found at:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Draft Policies
and Proposals under discussion
can be found at: <a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Sean Hopkins</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Senior Policy
Analyst</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">American Registry
for Internet Numbers (ARIN)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Draft Policy
ARIN-2022-9: Leasing Not
Intended</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Problem
Statement:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">“IPv6 Policy
(section 6.4.1.) explicitly
mention that address space is
not a property. This is also
stated in the RSA (section 7.)
for all the Internet Number
Resources.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">However, with the
spirit of the IPv4 allocation
policies being the same, there
is not an equivalent text for
IPv4, neither for ASNs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Further to that,
policies for IPv4 and IPv6
allocations, clearly state
that allocations are based on
justified need and not solely
on a predicted customer base.
Similar text can be found in
the section related to
Transfers (8.1).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Consequently,
resources not only aren’t a
property, but also, aren’t
allocated for leasing
purposes, only for justified
need of the resource holder
and its directly connected
customers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Therefore, and so
that there are no doubts about
it, it should be made explicit
in the NRPM that the Internet
Resources should not be leased
“per se”, but only as part of
a direct connectivity service.
At the same time, section
6.4.1. should be moved to the
top of the NRPM (possibly to
section 1. “Principles and
Goals of the American Registry
for Internet Numbers (ARIN)”.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Policy statement:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Actual Text (to
be replaced by New Text):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">6.4.1. Address
Space Not to be Considered
Property</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">It is contrary to
the goals of this document and
is not in the interests of the
Internet community as a whole
for address space to be
considered freehold property.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">The policies in
this document are based upon
the understanding that
globally-unique IPv6 unicast
address space is
allocated/assigned for use
rather than owned.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">New Text</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">1.5. Internet
Number Resources Not to be
Considered Property</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">It is contrary to
the goals of this document and
is not in the interests of the
Internet community as a whole
for address space to be
considered freehold property.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">The policies in
this document are based upon
the understanding that
Internet Number Resources are
allocated/assigned for use
rather than owned.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">ARIN allocate and
assign Internet resources in a
delegation scheme, with an
annual validity, renewable as
long as the requirements
specified by the policies in
force at the time of renewal
are met, and especially the
justification of the need.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Therefore, the
resources can’t be considered
property.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">The justification
of the need, generically in
the case of addresses, implies
their need to directly connect
customers. Therefore, the
leasing of addresses is not
considered acceptable, nor
does it justify the need, if
they are not part of a set of
services based, at least, on
direct connectivity.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Even in cases of
networks not connected to the
Internet, the leasing of
addresses is not admissible,
since said sites can request
direct assignments from ARIN
and even in the case of IPv4,
use private addresses or
arrange transfers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Timetable for
implementation: Immediate </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Situation in
other Regions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">In other RIRs,
the leasing of addresses is
not authorized either and
since it is not explicit in
their policy manuals either,
this proposal will be
presented as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Nothing is
currently mentioned in RIPE
about this and it is not
acceptable as a justification
of the need. In AFRINIC, APNIC
and LACNIC, the staff has
confirmed that address leasing
is not considered as valid for
the justification.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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