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<p>Hello Bruce</p>
<p>There is not problem at all in these scenarios as resources can
be easily transferred and there are policies for that already,
therefore the mechanism already exist.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/09/2022 13:31, Bruce Cornett via
ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
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Hello
<div><br>
I see a potential problem where changes in corporate structure
occur when shifting day to day operations to subsidiaries or
sister corporations, leaving the block assignment with the
original holder.
<div><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Bruce C</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:44 AM, Fernando
Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
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<p>Hello</p>
<p>There is no such error in the proposal.<br>
This has been checked as being the interpretation staff
gives to the current policy in most RIRs. APNIC is just
an example that have confirmed it publicly a couples of
days ago. <br>
You may not find all the very specific words you may
wish for in the text, but it is not much difficult for
them to have such interpretation given the resources
must follow a proper justification of what they will be
used for and that can never be that you will use them
for leasing (rent of lend). ARIN also already confirmed
in this very same list they don't accept it as a
justification.<br>
</p>
<p>There is no much around the term leasing. If an
organization who don't provide any connectivity services
to another simply rent or lend IP space, with or without
a cost associated that is something that must not be
since they no longer have a justification to keep that
IP space and instead should either transfer it to those
who really justify or return to ARIN.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/08/2022 11:04, Mike
Burns wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Opposed, I think the proposal
contains errors that should be fixed before the
discussion proceeds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For example this statement :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“<span
style="color:#333333;background:white">In other
RIRs, the leasing of addresses is not authorized
either and since it is not explicit in their
policy manuals either, this proposal will be
presented as well.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white">If it is
not in their policy manuals, how can the proposers
state leasing is not authorized?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white">Where do
the proposers think authority comes from, if not
from policy and contract?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white">Are they
just assuming that all things are prohibited
unless they are explicitly allowed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white">That would
be an interesting way to read the policy manual,
if that is the belief, we should discuss that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white">Beyond that
there is the very next sentence:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white">” Nothing
is currently mentioned in RIPE about this and it
is not acceptable as a justification of the
need. “ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#333333;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Once again the bias is towards
prohibition despite language about leasing being
absent from RIPE policy. More to the point, and
something that can’t be drummed-home clearly enough
to this community, RIPE has no needs test at all for
transfers and hasn’t for years. And yet RIPE still
exists and operates as an RIR. Even further to the
point, in the one occasion that RIPE performs a
needs-test, which is on inter-regional transfers
from ARIN, leased-out addresses are in fact
acceptable as justification. That’s because of two
logical things. First, RIPE understands that the
inherent value of the addresses drives them towards
efficient use. Second, RIPE understands that they
are charged with getting addresses into use, not
getting them into use on particular networks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So the first two sentences in the
“situation at other RIRs” are problematic/false.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Might I suggest fixing those
before we move forward, and also can you please
define the word leasing?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This seems poorly though-out to
me, and I haven’t started on the meat of the
proposal yet nor how it would be effectively policed
and prohibited.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>ARIN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 23, 2022 12:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> PPML <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [arin-ppml] Draft Policy
ARIN-2022-9: Leasing Not Intended<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 18 August 2022, the ARIN
Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-308:
Leasing Not Intended" as a Draft Policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9 is below
and can be found at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You are encouraged to discuss all
Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will evaluate the
discussion to assess the conformance of this draft
policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number
resource policy as stated in the Policy Development
Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">* Enabling Fair and Impartial
Number Resource Administration<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">* Technically Sound<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">* Supported by the Community<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The PDP can be found at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policies and Proposals
under discussion can be found at: <a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sean Hopkins<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Senior Policy Analyst<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">American Registry for Internet
Numbers (ARIN)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9: Leasing
Not Intended<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Problem Statement:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“IPv6 Policy (section 6.4.1.)
explicitly mention that address space is not a
property. This is also stated in the RSA (section
7.) for all the Internet Number Resources.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, with the spirit of the
IPv4 allocation policies being the same, there is
not an equivalent text for IPv4, neither for ASNs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Further to that, policies for
IPv4 and IPv6 allocations, clearly state that
allocations are based on justified need and not
solely on a predicted customer base. Similar text
can be found in the section related to Transfers
(8.1).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Consequently, resources not only
aren’t a property, but also, aren’t allocated for
leasing purposes, only for justified need of the
resource holder and its directly connected
customers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, and so that there are
no doubts about it, it should be made explicit in
the NRPM that the Internet Resources should not be
leased “per se”, but only as part of a direct
connectivity service. At the same time, section
6.4.1. should be moved to the top of the NRPM
(possibly to section 1. “Principles and Goals of the
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)”.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Policy statement:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Actual Text (to be replaced by
New Text):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">6.4.1. Address Space Not to be
Considered Property<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is contrary to the goals of
this document and is not in the interests of the
Internet community as a whole for address space to
be considered freehold property.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The policies in this document are
based upon the understanding that globally-unique
IPv6 unicast address space is allocated/assigned for
use rather than owned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">New Text<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1.5. Internet Number Resources
Not to be Considered Property<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is contrary to the goals of
this document and is not in the interests of the
Internet community as a whole for address space to
be considered freehold property.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The policies in this document are
based upon the understanding that Internet Number
Resources are allocated/assigned for use rather than
owned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ARIN allocate and assign Internet
resources in a delegation scheme, with an annual
validity, renewable as long as the requirements
specified by the policies in force at the time of
renewal are met, and especially the justification of
the need.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, the resources can’t be
considered property.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The justification of the need,
generically in the case of addresses, implies their
need to directly connect customers. Therefore, the
leasing of addresses is not considered acceptable,
nor does it justify the need, if they are not part
of a set of services based, at least, on direct
connectivity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Even in cases of networks not
connected to the Internet, the leasing of addresses
is not admissible, since said sites can request
direct assignments from ARIN and even in the case of
IPv4, use private addresses or arrange transfers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Timetable for implementation:
Immediate <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Situation in other Regions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In other RIRs, the leasing of
addresses is not authorized either and since it is
not explicit in their policy manuals either, this
proposal will be presented as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nothing is currently mentioned in
RIPE about this and it is not acceptable as a
justification of the need. In AFRINIC, APNIC and
LACNIC, the staff has confirmed that address leasing
is not considered as valid for the justification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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