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<p>Hi Scott, what Internet operation exists there is no connectivity
provided by the resource holder to a customer ?</p>
<p>Unfortunately that's not quiet correct your assertion that simply
ARIN should only care whether addresses are in use on a operation
network or not. Above all they should care if resources are being
utilized according to the current policy and the need they were
justified for.<br>
If an organization who doesn't provide any connectivity services
to another and simply leases (rent or lend) address to be used for
this second one creates security issues, given that,*in the
absence of connectivity the member receiving the license to use
the addresses does not have immediate physical control to manage
or filter these resources, something that could potentially result
in damages to the entire community.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/08/2022 14:26, Scott Leibrand
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGkMwz53SXQ1QXJaogLau3QZLaLFXsyXvU9HKAkQz3xHiMZwyA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">No, this draft policy is not merely a
clarification. This would a significant change in policy, and if
enforced would significantly interfere with the efficient
operation of the Internet.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ARIN should only care whether addresses are in use on an
operational network. They have no reason to care about the
connectivity, or lack thereof, between an LIR and operational
networks that it reallocates or reassigns space to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I run an operational network. We still use a number of
address blocks originally allocated to us by our transit
providers before we acquired our own space, which we have
always announced in BGP in a multihomed fashion. If we stop
announcing the route to the transit provider who announced us
the space, whether temporarily (due to an outage or
maintenance) or more permanently (because we no longer need
transit from them there), we should be able to continue using
our assigned space as long as we have appropriate contractual
arrangements in place to do so. That is a form of "leasing"
that has always been allowed, and this policy would disallow
it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any policy requiring a certain form of connectivity between
an LIR and its customers will either be unenforceable and
easily gamed, or onerous, bureaucratic, and will interfere
with the legitimate operation of networks efficiently
utilizing their IPv4 space.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Scott</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 9:32
AM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello Scott</p>
<p>Could you explain better the arguments you are against in
this proposal or that don't sound valid?</p>
<p>All this proposal does is to make clear make something
clear in the policy text.<br>
If you cannot go to ARIN and justify that you intend to
use requested IP addresses for simple leasing proposes, to
be leased to organization with who you don't provide any
connectivity services, why would it be an accepted thing
in any other scenario ?<br>
IP space is to be used for building Internet
infrastructure and to get customers connected to the
Internet, not to be simply leased from one organization
pretending to be a RIR to another.</p>
<p>Unless I misunderstood and you like the idea of leasing
and so why you oppose this proposal.</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>On 24/08/2022 12:40, Scott Leibrand wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Opposed. There is no good reason I
am aware of for ARIN to require the bundling of IP
addressing and connectivity services. The arguments
provided in this draft policy are not sound or valid ones.
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Scott</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Aug 23, 2022, at 9:28 AM,
ARIN <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@arin.net></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 18 August 2022, the ARIN
Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-308:
Leasing Not Intended" as a Draft Policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9 is
below and can be found at:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You are encouraged to discuss
all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will evaluate
the discussion to assess the conformance of this
draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet
number resource policy as stated in the Policy
Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these
principles are:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">* Enabling Fair and Impartial
Number Resource Administration</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">* Technically Sound</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">* Supported by the Community</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The PDP can be found at:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policies and Proposals
under discussion can be found at: <a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sean Hopkins</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Senior Policy Analyst</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">American Registry for Internet
Numbers (ARIN)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9:
Leasing Not Intended</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Problem Statement:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“IPv6 Policy (section 6.4.1.)
explicitly mention that address space is not a
property. This is also stated in the RSA (section
7.) for all the Internet Number Resources.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, with the spirit of the
IPv4 allocation policies being the same, there is
not an equivalent text for IPv4, neither for ASNs.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Further to that, policies for
IPv4 and IPv6 allocations, clearly state that
allocations are based on justified need and not
solely on a predicted customer base. Similar text
can be found in the section related to Transfers
(8.1).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Consequently, resources not
only aren’t a property, but also, aren’t allocated
for leasing purposes, only for justified need of
the resource holder and its directly connected
customers.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, and so that there
are no doubts about it, it should be made explicit
in the NRPM that the Internet Resources should not
be leased “per se”, but only as part of a direct
connectivity service. At the same time, section
6.4.1. should be moved to the top of the NRPM
(possibly to section 1. “Principles and Goals of
the American Registry for Internet Numbers
(ARIN)”.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Policy statement:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Actual Text (to be replaced by
New Text):</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">6.4.1. Address Space Not to be
Considered Property</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is contrary to the goals of
this document and is not in the interests of the
Internet community as a whole for address space to
be considered freehold property.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The policies in this document
are based upon the understanding that
globally-unique IPv6 unicast address space is
allocated/assigned for use rather than owned.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">New Text</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1.5. Internet Number Resources
Not to be Considered Property</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is contrary to the goals of
this document and is not in the interests of the
Internet community as a whole for address space to
be considered freehold property.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The policies in this document
are based upon the understanding that Internet
Number Resources are allocated/assigned for use
rather than owned.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ARIN allocate and assign
Internet resources in a delegation scheme, with an
annual validity, renewable as long as the
requirements specified by the policies in force at
the time of renewal are met, and especially the
justification of the need.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, the resources can’t
be considered property.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The justification of the need,
generically in the case of addresses, implies
their need to directly connect customers.
Therefore, the leasing of addresses is not
considered acceptable, nor does it justify the
need, if they are not part of a set of services
based, at least, on direct connectivity.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Even in cases of networks not
connected to the Internet, the leasing of
addresses is not admissible, since said sites can
request direct assignments from ARIN and even in
the case of IPv4, use private addresses or arrange
transfers.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Timetable for implementation:
Immediate </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Situation in other Regions:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In other RIRs, the leasing of
addresses is not authorized either and since it is
not explicit in their policy manuals either, this
proposal will be presented as well.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nothing is currently mentioned
in RIPE about this and it is not acceptable as a
justification of the need. In AFRINIC, APNIC and
LACNIC, the staff has confirmed that address
leasing is not considered as valid for the
justification.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
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