<html><body><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>ARIN controls the root servers for this region do they not.<br>Without the root servers nothing gets routed.<br>That is a part of the number resources ARIN made commitments to maintain for all resources that had been allocated.<br>And yes I was well alive before Al Gore invented the Internet. :-)<br></div><div><br></div><hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"pmcnary" <pmcnary@cameron.net><br><b>To: </b>"pmcnary" <pmcnary@cameron.net><br><b>Cc: </b>"Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 3:05:35 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div style="font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000"><div>John<br>My Son is sitting here telling me to Shut the F*** up before you revoke our IP Number resources.<br>So since I am semi-retired, I should do as he says<br>Just an OLD ANGRY MAN.<br></div><br><hr id="zwchr"><div><b>From: </b>"pmcnary" <pmcnary@cameron.net><br><b>To: </b>"pmcnary" <pmcnary@cameron.net><br><b>Cc: </b>"Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 3:02:56 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br></div><br><div><div style="font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000"><div>John you have repeatably told me I would risk revocation if I obtained a legacy IP block and tried to clean up the registration.<br>You have now changed you mind and I would no longer have to worry if I obtained a legacy IP block from a friend?<br>I here you speaking out of both sides of your mouth.<br></div><br><hr id="zwchr"><div><b>From: </b>"arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>To: </b>"Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 2:58:21 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br></div><br><div><div style="font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">I think we are talking about number resources here not the individual numbers.<br>Predecessor entities (pre ARIN) made commitments for the "Number Resources" that were allocated.<br>ARIN assumed those responsibilities and commitments and agreed not to alter them. ie. continue to route "all" number resources that had been previously assigned by Pre-ARIN entities. ARIN keeps trying to stop honoring or threaten to stop honoring these agreed to commitments they made.<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><div><b>From: </b>"Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com><br><b>To: </b>"pmcnary" <pmcnary@cameron.net><br><b>Cc: </b>"William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 2:46:29 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br></div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>Oy vey.</div><br><div>We've had this discussion before.</div><br><div>You can't lay a property claim to a number.</div><br><div>Google can't "buy" the number googol, and charge people a license fee to use it </div><div>every time they count that high.</div><br><div>I can't "own" the number "pi" and charge everyone who tries to make a circle </div><div>using it a licensing fee. </div><br><div>I don't "own" my telephone number, and can't sue phone spammers for spoofing </div><div>it when they robocall other people.</div><br><div>IP addresses are just binary numbers. That's it.</div><br><div>You can't own numbers.</div><br><div>All those networks that ran out of RFC 1918 space and were squatting on government </div><div>blocks? Not guilty of theft, because the addresses aren't property:</div><div><a href="https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/</a><br></div><br><div>I know I've configured number resources in my internal networks </div><div>that didn't belong to me, and no IP police came busting down my </div><div>door.</div><br><div>What matters isn't the IP number resources, it's the agreement </div><div>among the community that there will be a coordinated and accepted </div><div>injection of those number resources into the global routing table.</div><br><div>Using someone else's IP space internally doesn't matter one whit.</div><br><div>What *does* matter is when you start injecting entries into the global </div><div>routing table that go against what the database of record says should </div><div>be there.</div><br><div>And that's why John is so explicit that what ARIN is keeping updated </div><div>is the single source of truth for what the community has agreed belongs </div><div>in the routing table. </div><br><div>But if I configure your number resources internally in my network, good </div><div>luck finding any judge that will rule that I have somehow stolen your </div><div>property by configuring a binary number in my network devices.</div><br><div>Number resources are just integers, and nobody can lay claim of </div><div>property ownership on an integer.</div><br><div>End of story.</div><br><div>Matt</div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 12:20 PM Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex">That is why I always say John uses "Inside The Beltway" Non-Responsive language.<br>
He just stated to me that number resources are probate-able.<br>
That means something that has value to the estate or heirs.<br>
Normally property. Legacy resources were issued without contract.<br>
So contract law is not valid and it would be over 25 years old.<br>
So property law should attach.<br>
I think I hear John saying that, but I need an interpreter/lawyer for anything John says.<br>
You asked him a specific question with a non-responsive answer as I always get from him.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "William Herrin" <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
To: "pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br>
Cc: "Fernando Frediani" <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>, "arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:12:39 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 11:18 AM Paul E McNary <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Then why the threat?<br>
<br>
Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
In my opinion? ARIN has a legal house of cards built on the premise<br>
that there are no property rights in IP addresses. It's "true" until a<br>
court says otherwise so they want to give the court as few reasons as<br>
possible to say otherwise. Like any legal threat, the idea is to keep<br>
the matter out of court be gaining compliance.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
For hire. <a href="https://bill.herrin.us/resume/" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bill.herrin.us/resume/</a><br>
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