<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
Paul -
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">Let’s start over here – </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">1. You (and your son) do not need to worry about revocation of your existing blocks due to expressing views on the mailing list – everyone is allowed to express their views so long as they stay within the Acceptable Use Policy (basically be on
good behavior - <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/community/mailing_lists/aup/" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/community/mailing_lists/aup/</a>)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">2. You reference “routing” and "root servers" as things that ARIN controls - that’s really not the case – we simply operate a registry of IP address blocks. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">3. I have enormous respect for your right to be an Old Angry Man (and personally aspire to get to that status myself someday :-) </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">4. ARIN operates a registry database that was directed to be transferred to ARIN by the US Government/NSF, and in the process of our formation ARIN agreed to operate it according to policies set by this community that are developed via an open
and transparent process. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">5. To the extent that you want to chat about any of the above, feel free to reach out to me at any time: my mobile number is +1 617 512 8095. (It might be possible to walk through some of this orally in a more efficient manner.)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
Thanks and best wishes,
<div class="">/John
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">John Curran</div>
<div class="">President and CEO</div>
<div class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 25 Jul 2022, at 4:08 PM, Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
<div class="">ARIN controls the root servers for this region do they not.<br class="">
Without the root servers nothing gets routed.<br class="">
That is a part of the number resources ARIN made commitments to maintain for all resources that had been allocated.<br class="">
And yes I was well alive before Al Gore invented the Internet. :-)<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__" class="">
<div data-marker="__HEADERS__" class=""><b class="">From: </b>"pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>"pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>"Matthew Petach" <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com" class="">mpetach@netflight.com</a>>, "arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 3:05:35 PM<br class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__" class="">
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
<div class="">John<br class="">
My Son is sitting here telling me to Shut the F*** up before you revoke our IP Number resources.<br class="">
So since I am semi-retired, I should do as he says<br class="">
Just an OLD ANGRY MAN.<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<hr id="zwchr" class="">
<div class=""><b class="">From: </b>"pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>"pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>"Matthew Petach" <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com" class="">mpetach@netflight.com</a>>, "arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 3:02:56 PM<br class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
<div class="">John you have repeatably told me I would risk revocation if I obtained a legacy IP block and tried to clean up the registration.<br class="">
You have now changed you mind and I would no longer have to worry if I obtained a legacy IP block from a friend?<br class="">
I here you speaking out of both sides of your mouth.<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<hr id="zwchr" class="">
<div class=""><b class="">From: </b>"arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>"Matthew Petach" <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com" class="">mpetach@netflight.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>"arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 2:58:21 PM<br class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">
I think we are talking about number resources here not the individual numbers.<br class="">
Predecessor entities (pre ARIN) made commitments for the "Number Resources" that were allocated.<br class="">
ARIN assumed those responsibilities and commitments and agreed not to alter them. ie. continue to route "all" number resources that had been previously assigned by Pre-ARIN entities. ARIN keeps trying to stop honoring or threaten to stop honoring these agreed
to commitments they made.<br class="">
<br class="">
<hr id="zwchr" class="">
<div class=""><b class="">From: </b>"Matthew Petach" <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com" class="">mpetach@netflight.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">To: </b>"pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc: </b>"William Herrin" <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" class="">bill@herrin.us</a>>, "arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent: </b>Monday, July 25, 2022 2:46:29 PM<br class="">
<b class="">Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Oy vey.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">We've had this discussion before.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">You can't lay a property claim to a number.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">Google can't "buy" the number googol, and charge people a license fee to use it </div>
<div class="">every time they count that high.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">I can't "own" the number "pi" and charge everyone who tries to make a circle </div>
<div class="">using it a licensing fee. </div>
<br class="">
<div class="">I don't "own" my telephone number, and can't sue phone spammers for spoofing </div>
<div class="">it when they robocall other people.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">IP addresses are just binary numbers. That's it.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">You can't own numbers.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">All those networks that ran out of RFC 1918 space and were squatting on government </div>
<div class="">blocks? Not guilty of theft, because the addresses aren't property:</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/</a><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">I know I've configured number resources in my internal networks </div>
<div class="">that didn't belong to me, and no IP police came busting down my </div>
<div class="">door.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">What matters isn't the IP number resources, it's the agreement </div>
<div class="">among the community that there will be a coordinated and accepted </div>
<div class="">injection of those number resources into the global routing table.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">Using someone else's IP space internally doesn't matter one whit.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">What *does* matter is when you start injecting entries into the global </div>
<div class="">routing table that go against what the database of record says should </div>
<div class="">be there.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">And that's why John is so explicit that what ARIN is keeping updated </div>
<div class="">is the single source of truth for what the community has agreed belongs </div>
<div class="">in the routing table. </div>
<br class="">
<div class="">But if I configure your number resources internally in my network, good </div>
<div class="">luck finding any judge that will rule that I have somehow stolen your </div>
<div class="">property by configuring a binary number in my network devices.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">Number resources are just integers, and nobody can lay claim of </div>
<div class="">property ownership on an integer.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">End of story.</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">Matt</div>
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 12:20 PM Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex">
That is why I always say John uses "Inside The Beltway" Non-Responsive language.<br class="">
He just stated to me that number resources are probate-able.<br class="">
That means something that has value to the estate or heirs.<br class="">
Normally property. Legacy resources were issued without contract.<br class="">
So contract law is not valid and it would be over 25 years old.<br class="">
So property law should attach.<br class="">
I think I hear John saying that, but I need an interpreter/lawyer for anything John says.<br class="">
You asked him a specific question with a non-responsive answer as I always get from him.<br class="">
<br class="">
----- Original Message -----<br class="">
From: "William Herrin" <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">bill@herrin.us</a>><br class="">
To: "pmcnary" <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>><br class="">
Cc: "Fernando Frediani" <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>, "arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:12:39 PM<br class="">
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies?<br class="">
<br class="">
On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 11:18 AM Paul E McNary <<a href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
> Then why the threat?<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Paul,<br class="">
<br class="">
In my opinion? ARIN has a legal house of cards built on the premise<br class="">
that there are no property rights in IP addresses. It's "true" until a<br class="">
court says otherwise so they want to give the court as few reasons as<br class="">
possible to say otherwise. Like any legal threat, the idea is to keep<br class="">
the matter out of court be gaining compliance.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Bill Herrin<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
For hire. <a href="https://bill.herrin.us/resume/" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">
https://bill.herrin.us/resume/</a><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
ARIN-PPML<br class="">
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">
info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
ARIN-PPML<br class="">
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">
Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
ARIN-PPML<br class="">
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">
Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>