<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It occurs to me that there might be hullabaloo about peer vs. transit vs. whatever using that word (even though it’s the correct term for the situation regardless of the economic and/or filtration relationship involved), so feel free to use any appropriate word such as “neighbor” that gets the job done. Point is there’s no reason to make the first sentence hierarchical in nature and if you get rid of that unnecessary assumption, you cover all the cases with a lot less verbiage.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Alternatively, get rid of the first sentence altogether and recognize that all cases it covers are subsumed in the third.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Either works for me, but both are clearly duplicative and confusing IMHO.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 22, 2022, at 11:37, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">So why to simply replace the words “upstream provider” in the first sentence with “peer”?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 22, 2022, at 11:15, Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net" class="">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">"To use an AS Number to interconnect
with other Autonomous Systems." was intended to apply to
situations where a public ASN number was desired for exchanging
routes between organizations but where the concept of an "upstream
provider" wasn't appropriate. An example might be if an there
were two or more organizations which are exchanging routes, but
the organizations wanted unique AS Numbers to ensure there are not
any AS number collisions.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hope this helps,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Andrew<br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/22/2022 10:46 AM, Owen DeLong via
ARIN-PPML wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:370FBAC9-94AE-4748-8BDC-036DFC9E02E2@delong.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
Can someone clarify for me the meaningful difference between:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">To originate announcement of IP Number
Resources via an accepted protocol (such as Border Gateway
Protocol) from an AS Number different than that of its
upstream provider;</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">and</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">To use an AS Number to
interconnect with other Autonomous Systems.</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">—</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">It seems to me that anything defined by
the first sentence would be encompassed in the second.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Further, while I admit my imagination
may be limited here, I am unable to imagine a useful
implementation of the second sentence that would not also
conform to the first and would require a unique non-private
ASN.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">While I can see useful instances for
receive-only (non-originating) BGP sessions, such as route
servers, etc., I’m hard pressed to see why they would need a
unique public ASN. Even if they do, a useful route server is,
by definition, multi-homed.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Not necessarily opposed to the policy as
written, but think that it’s a lot of extra words with little
actual value in terms of clarity and perhaps even muddying the
waters a bit.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Owen</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 22, 2022, at 09:04, ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">info@arin.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On 17 March 2022, the
ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced the following
Draft Policy to Recommended Draft Policy status: </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">* ARIN-2021-3: Private
AS Number and Unique Routing Policy Clarifications</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The text of the
Recommended Draft Policy is below, and may also be
found at: </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_3/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration:
underline;" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_3/</a></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">You are encouraged to
discuss all Recommended Draft Policies on PPML prior
to their presentation at the next ARIN Public Policy
Consultation (PPC). PPML and PPC discussions are
invaluable to the AC when determining community
consensus. </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The PDP can be found
at:</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration:
underline;" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Draft Policies and
Proposals under discussion can be found at: </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration:
underline;" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Regards, </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Sean Hopkins </div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Senior Policy Analyst </div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">American Registry for
Internet Numbers </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Recommended Draft
Policy ARIN-2021-3: Private AS Number and Unique
Routing Policy Clarifications</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">AC Assessment of
Conformance with the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/#4-principles-of-internet-number-resource-policy" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration:
underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Principles
of Internet Number Resource Policy</a>:</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Recommended Draft
Policy ARIN-2021-3 conforms to the principles of the
ARIN Policy Development Process as follows:</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">- By providing greater
clarity concerning when a requesting organization
qualifies for AS Numbers, it promotes fair and
impartial number resource administration;</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">- It is technically
sounds because it clarifies the technical requirements
for obtaining AS Numbers (i.e., the need to
interconnect with other organizations’ Autonomous
Systems, what constitutes a “unique routing policy”,
and the need to have a network plan); and</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">- Community support has
been demonstrated throughout the process associated
with its development.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Problem Statement:</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">At ARIN 47, staff
identified three points of potential confusion with
current text in NRPM Section 5: AS Numbers.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“Sites that do not
require a unique AS Number should use one or more of
the AS Numbers reserved for private use.” Some
customers are not aware that their need for unique AS
Numbers depends upon their need (or lack thereof) to
interconnect with other organizations’ Autonomous
Systems.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“In order to be
assigned an AS Number, each requesting organization
must provide ARIN with verification that it has one of
the following…A unique routing policy (its policy
differs from its border gateway peers)…A multihomed
site.” Few customers qualify for AS Numbers under the
“unique routing policy” requirement, because they
don’t understand what “unique routing policy” actually
means in practice.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“AS Numbers are issued
based on current need. An organization should request
an AS Number only when it is already multihomed or
will immediately become multihomed.” All ARIN
delegations are based on current needs, and some
customers aren’t aware they need network plans when
they request AS Numbers. Additionally, clarification
that some organizations may have a unique need for an
AS Number outside of utilizing a unique routing
policy, such as one implemented using, for example, a
protocol such as Border Gateway Protocol (BGP).</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Policy statement:</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In Section 5 -</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Replace</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“Sites that do not
require a unique AS Number should use one or more of
the AS Numbers reserved for private use.”</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">with</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“If a unique AS Number
is not required for a given network design, one or
more of the AS Numbers reserved for private use should
be utilized.”</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Replace</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“In order to be
assigned an AS Number, each requesting organization
must provide ARIN with verification that it has one of
the following</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">A unique routing policy
(its policy differs from its border gateway peers) 2.
A multihomed site”</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">with</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“In order to be
assigned an AS Number, each requesting organization
must provide ARIN with verification that it requires a
unique routing policy, such as a plan:</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">To originate
announcement of IP Number Resources via an accepted
protocol (such as Border Gateway Protocol) from an AS
Number different than that of its upstream provider;</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">To multihome a site
with one or more Autonomous Systems; or</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">To use an AS Number to
interconnect with other Autonomous Systems.”</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Replace</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“AS Numbers are issued
based on current need. An organization should request
an AS Number only when it is already multihomed or
will immediately become multihomed.”</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">with</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">“AS Numbers are issued
based on current need, as set out in this section 5.”</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Timetable for
implementation: Immediate</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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