<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Owen</p>
    <p>You efforts to defend brokers interests and less of community
      interests are curious. And that hasn't been just in ARIN which is
      even more curious this increased efforts.<br>
      Interesting as well the conflict of "they will happen without the
      RIRs" and "ethical and policy compliant".</p>
    <p>Oh and funny joke that a broker is like a LIR.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/03/2022 17:32, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:4F42FD9A-0400-4D30-9858-72E5984B3EFA@delong.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <br class="">
      <div class="">
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Mar 16, 2022, at 15:22 , Fernando Frediani
              <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <div class="">
                <p class="">Hi David</p>
                <p class="">If I understand correctly you seem to have a
                  view that there should be a ARIN policy to permit IPv4
                  leasing just because it is a reality and we kind of
                  have to accept it in our days. No we don't, and that's
                  for many different reasons.</p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          Well, of course, you are free to deny reality as much as you
          want. Many people do. It’s not particularly helpful in the
          discussion, however.</div>
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">I am used to see people saying the brokers are
                doing a good thing for the community by facilitating the
                things which in reality is the opposite. It may look
                like a good things, but the real beneficiaries are only
                them who profit from it without much concern of what is
                fair or not to most organizations involved.<br class="">
              </p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br class="">
          </div>
          You are actually mistaken here. I used to think as you do,
          actually. I was very resistant to the first “specified
          transfer” policies because of some of the reasons you
          describe. However, what you are failing to recognize is that:</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">    </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Brokers
          and specified transfers were going to happen with or without
          the RIRs. If they happened without the RIRs,</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">            </span>there’d
          be no accurate record of who was using which address space and
          the provenance of addresses would be</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">            </span>very
          difficult to support or defend.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">            </span>*<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Benefit
          to the community from brokers: (ethical) brokers are familiar
          with the rules in the RIRs in which</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">                            </span>they
          operate and can assist their customers in accurate and
          compliant registration updates and</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">                            </span>aid
          in keeping the allocation database(s) accurate.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">    </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>With
          the economic realities of IPv4 addresses becoming
          progressively more and more expensive and the advent</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">            </span>of
          ISPs with limited IPv4 resources available, it is inevitable
          that more and more IP service providers will be</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">            </span>doing
          one or more of the following:</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">            </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Separate
          surcharges for IPv4 addresses</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Expecting
          customers to supply their own IPv4 addresses</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Surcharges
          for IPv4 services</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>IPv4
          “installation charges” large enough to cover the procurement
          of addresses</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>*<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Brokers
          assist ISPs and customers in many of the above circumstances.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>With
          a variety of organizations holding IPv4 addresses that may or
          may not even known they have them and whose</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>IPv4
          resources may vastly exceed their needs, it is (arguably)
          desirable to have those addresses be transferred to parties</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>that
          have current need for IPv4 addresses.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>*<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Brokers
          provide a valuable service to the community identifying and
          marketing these resources</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>*<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Paid
          transfers provide an incentive for entities to make more
          efficient use of the resources they have in order</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                      </span>to
          monetize the resources they no longer need. Brokers are
          frequently able to assist in this process.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>With
          the high cost of acquisition, IPv4 addresses have become a
          capital intensive part of any network-dependent</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>business
          model that must support IPv4. Further, there is some risk that
          this capital outlay may be fore a resource</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>which
          will abruptly and quickly lose its value and no longer be
          needed well before it can be amortized as a capital</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>expenditure.
          As such, it may make sense for some entities to transfer that
          risk to another organization by using</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>a
          lease structure instead of purchasing the addresses outright.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">              </span>*<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">   </span>Brokers
          that provide IPv4 leasing in an ethical and policy compliant
          way provide a valuable service</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                      </span>to
          these businesses. Yes, their price per address may eventually
          be more than it would have cost</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                      </span>them
          to purchase the addresses, but the same is true of virtually
          any rental situation.  On the other hand,</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                      </span>that
          excess helps offset the risk that the lessor is taking by
          owning a resource that may or may not remain</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">                      </span>valuable
          and may or may not continue to produce revenue.</div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">IP Leasing is very different from IP Transfer
                which I see not problem they continue doing it. IP
                Transfer at least we have some guarantees that the
                directly receiving organization really justify for them
                and that is a quiet important (I would say fundamental)
                point to look at, because that is fairer to everyone
                involved. What guarantees we have when a IP Leasing is
                done in that sense, that fairness start to lack here.</p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          If we set the policies up correctly, we should have the same
          exact guarantees on a lease.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>If
          $ISP acquires a /10 through transfer and then issues various
          subordinate prefixes to their customer, the only guarantee</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>you
          have that $ISP’s customers who receive the addresses really
          justify them is that $ISP says so. We generally trust $ISP</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>to
          act in good faith.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>If
          $LESSOR acquires a /10 through transfer and then leases
          various subordinate prefixes to their customers, we have
          pretty</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>much
          the same guarantee with the additional bit that $CUSTOMER is
          at least willing to pay enough for the addresses to $LESSOR</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>to
          make the lease make sense. In general, I think it is somewhat
          safe to assume that $CUSTOMER is not going to make a</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>monthly
          recurring payment to $LESSOR for something they don’t intend
          to use. If one’s intent is to deprive the market and</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>inflate
          the price, then the risk profile for such a transaction is
          vastly more favorable if you purchase rather than lease.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>Sure,
          there could be lessors that don’t get reasonable justification
          for allocations from their customers, but there are most</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>certainly
          ISPs in that category as well. Either way, you’ve got very
          little assurance. A lessor can provide just as much</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>justification
          to an RIR for the addresses they will allocate to leases as an
          ISP can for addresses they will lease to their</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>customers.
          The only difference is a lease with connectivity from the same
          company or a lease from a company other than</div>
        <div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">      </span>the
          one(s) providing connectivity.</div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">People see the brokers are doing a favor to
                organizations in general by facilitating they get some
                chunks of IPv4, but that in reality makes the cost of
                IPv4 for both leasing and transfer more and more
                expensive as it makes organization even more dependent
                from these <span class="VIiyi" lang="en">those crumbs
                  that seem to be offered with good intention</span> but
                in reality it is feeding a system that is contrary the
                interests to most organizations involved.</p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          Just as you are free to mount, balance, and rotate your own
          tires, or, you can go to a tire store and have them perform
          that service for a fee, brokers provide a service for a fee.
          If you want to obtain addresses in the transfer market without
          a broker, you’re still free to do that. Brokers are not
          driving the cost of IPv4… The scarcity and difficulty of
          operating with IPv4 is driving the cost of IPv4. Brokers are
          along for the ride providing a service and collecting a fee
          for that service. Whether that fee is reasonable or not is
          (and should be) entirely in the eye of the customer. Customers
          are always free to walk away and find a different supplier or
          look for their addresses independently.</div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">It may sound a cliche but IPv4 is over and
                organizations must learn how to survive with what they
                have, reinvent themselves and make better used of their
                IPv4 resources, deploy a proper CGNAT, deploy IPv6
                either they like it or not, etc. If an organization have
                so little or none and need some minimal amount is fine
                they seek for a Transfer of a minimal amount with the
                help of brokers. <br class="">
              </p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          I agree. However, the increasing cost of IPv4 is a natural and
          organic part of that process and sticking our heads in the
          sand and pretending that it is not the economic reality of how
          the current world works will not help anyone. Not the
          community, not organizations that are short on IPv4 resources,
          and not the RIRs who are only useful so long as their
          databases provide a reasonably accurate reflection of the
          actual utilization of the address space and who controls it.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div>A broker is an LIR just like an ISP. Since ISPs are now
          charging for addresses independent of connectivity and
          bandwidth, it only makes sense that customers can shop for
          them separately from different suppliers. Just like you can
          buy tires for your car from the dealership or from some other
          store that sells and supports tires, IPv4 addresses are moving
          that way as well. The RIRs can either recognize this and adapt
          to it with policies that make sense and preserve some of the
          things you’ve outlined as concerns above, or, they can simply
          deny the reality of IPv4 leasing and lose track of how
          addresses are actually managed for some significant chunks of
          the internet.</div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">Encouraging IP Leasing as if it were something
                normal just "because it exists today" is a shot in the
                foot that in the long term only worsens the existing
                scenario, it feeds a market without much discretion
                increasing final prices for everyone and what is the
                worst of all, creates even more unfairness for everyone
                who has always submitted to the rules we have until
                today for distributing addresses to those who really
                have a real justification to keep control of that
                resource that does not belong to them.</p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          I don’t believe that a policy that merely allows IPv4 leasing
          can be said to encourage it. Rather, it permits it, recognizes
          that it exists and is not going to stop existing just because
          policy pretends it can’t exist.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div>The market is not likely to be significantly swayed by
          policy in terms of pricing, with the exception that AFRINIC
          has been able to preserve a devalued price on addresses within
          their region due to their restrictive lack of a transfer
          policy for moving addresses to/from AFRINIC. However, while
          this has the effect of keeping AFRINIC IPv4 addresses less
          expensive on the open market, it also leads to a significant
          amount of utilization of those addresses outside of policy and
          quite a bit of hoarding of addresses by some of AFRINIC’s
          largest members. ARIN’s counsel has advised against naming
          names here, so I won’t, but if you want names, contact me off
          list.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div>Owen</div>
        <div> <br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <p class="">Regards<br class="">
                Fernando<br class="">
              </p>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/03/2022 13:09, David
                Farmer via ARIN-PPML wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAN-Dau1c0=nk7DGasM3_w16y_q+OMjO8cvv0U-MyQ8aRp0zUyw@mail.gmail.com"
                class="">
                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                  <div class="">Yes, bundling IPv4 addresses with
                    bandwidth is permitted, and in the past was common
                    practice, heck even the expected practice. However,
                    the fact that IPv4 address demand isn't decreasing
                    significantly, the costs to acquire new IPv4
                    addresses are increasing significantly, and with the
                    increasing commoditization of bandwidth, it is no
                    longer economically viable to bundle bandwidth, and
                    its associated connectivity, with IPv4 addressing.
                    This is driving a structural separation of
                    bandwidth, connectivity, and IPv4 addressing, from
                    each other, instead of bundling them together as in
                    the past.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Let me state that differently; ISPs are
                    being driven, buy cost conscience consumers, to
                    separate the costs of bandwidth and the costs of the
                    IPv4 addresses needed to utilize the bandwidth from
                    each other.  Minimally this separation is achieved
                    by accounting for the costs on separate line items
                    of a common bill from a single provider. However,
                    price competition for bandwidth and IPv4 addresses
                    separately will inevitably drive a structural
                    separation between the two. Consumers will want the
                    best price they can get for bandwidth and the best
                    price they can get for IPv4 addresses, regardless of
                    whether they come from a single provider or not.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Some may argue this is being driven by
                    the existence of address brokers, and their desire
                    to make money, I disagree. While address brokers
                    making money is the grease that keeps this machine
                    working, the need for the machine is driven by; IPv4
                    free pool exhaustion, the increasing cost of IPv4
                    addresses, and the lack of adoption of IPv6.</div>
                  <div class="">In other words, address brokers wouldn't
                    exist if there wasn't a demand for their services.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">In short, the economic conditions that
                    allowed for and even encouraged the bundling of IPv4
                    addresses with bandwidth and connectivity no longer
                    exist, that world is gone. While I have not
                    personally yet determined if I support this
                    particular policy text, nevertheless, the time has
                    come to recognize the next step in this inextricable
                    evolution of IPv4 address policy by the ARIN policy
                    community and permit IPv4 leasing.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Thanks.</div>
                  <br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 11,
                      2022 at 5:05 PM John Santos <<a
                        href="mailto:john@egh.com" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">john@egh.com</a>>
                      wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
                      border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
                      rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">I
                      disagree.  The addresses are useless unless they
                      ALSO purchase access and <br class="">
                      routing from another network operator.  How is
                      this cheaper?<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      It is and always has been allowed to lease bundled
                      access of addresses and <br class="">
                      connectivity from a LIR, without any expense for
                      purchasing those addresses.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      On 3/11/2022 12:13 PM, Tom Fantacone wrote:<br
                        class="">
                      > I support the proposal as written.<br
                        class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > It facilitates the provision of a valuable
                      service to a large swath of the ARIN <br class="">
                      > community, namely the ability of network
                      operators with an operational need to <br class="">
                      > lease IPv4 addresses from 3rd party lessors
                      at a fraction of the cost of <br class="">
                      > purchasing those addresses.  Too often we
                      have seen network operators justify <br class="">
                      > their need for IPv4 space only to find that
                      they can't afford to make the <br class="">
                      > purchase.  They end up using CGNAT or some
                      other sub-optimal solution.<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > Bill, regarding your point "B", by providing
                      IPv4 leasing, these 3rd parties are <br class="">
                      > certainly performing a function that ARIN
                      does not.<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > ---- On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:46:36 -0500
                      *William Herrin <<a
                        href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bill@herrin.us</a>>*
                      wrote ----<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >     On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 8:24 PM ARIN <<a
                        href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>>><br
                        class="">
                      >     wrote:<br class="">
                      >      > * ARIN-2021-6: Permit IPv4 Leased
                      Addresses for Purposes of Determining<br class="">
                      >     Utilization for Future Allocations<br
                        class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >     I continue to OPPOSE this proposal
                      because:<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >     A) It asks ARIN to facilitate blatant and
                      unapologetic rent-seeking<br class="">
                      >     behavior with changes to public policy.<br
                        class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >     B) It proposes that third parties perform
                      precisely and only the<br class="">
                      >     functions that ARIN itself performs
                      without any credible compliance<br class="">
                      >     mechanism to assure the third party
                      performs to ARIN's standards or in<br class="">
                      >     accordance with the community's
                      established number policy.<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >     Regards,<br class="">
                      >     Bill Herrin<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >     -- <br class="">
                      >     William Herrin<br class="">
                      >     <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bill@herrin.us</a> <mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bill@herrin.us</a>><br
                        class="">
                      >     <a href="https://bill.herrin.us/"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bill.herrin.us/</a> <<a
                        href="https://bill.herrin.us/" rel="noreferrer"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bill.herrin.us/</a>><br
                        class="">
                      >   
                       _______________________________________________<br
                        class="">
                      >     ARIN-PPML<br class="">
                      >     You are receiving this message because
                      you are subscribed to<br class="">
                      >     the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
                        href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br
                        class="">
                      >     <mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>>).<br
                        class="">
                      >     Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
                      subscription at:<br class="">
                      >     <a
                        href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br
                        class="">
                      >     <<a
                        href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>><br
                        class="">
                      >     Please contact <a
                        href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a
                        href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>>
                      if you experience any<br class="">
                      >     issues.<br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      > <br class="">
                      >
                      _______________________________________________<br
                        class="">
                      > ARIN-PPML<br class="">
                      > You are receiving this message because you
                      are subscribed to<br class="">
                      > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
                        href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br
                        class="">
                      > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
                      subscription at:<br class="">
                      > <a
                        href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br
                        class="">
                      > Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if
                      you experience any issues.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      -- <br class="">
                      John Santos<br class="">
                      Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br class="">
                      781-861-0670 ext 539<br class="">
                      _______________________________________________<br
                        class="">
                      ARIN-PPML<br class="">
                      You are receiving this message because you are
                      subscribed to<br class="">
                      the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
                        href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br
                        class="">
                      Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
                      subscription at:<br class="">
                      <a
                        href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br
                        class="">
                      Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if
                      you experience any issues.<br class="">
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br class="" clear="all">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  -- <br class="">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="">===============================================<br
                      class="">
                    David Farmer               <a
                      href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br
                      class="">
                    Networking & Telecommunication Services<br
                      class="">
                    Office of Information Technology<br class="">
                    University of Minnesota   <br class="">
                    2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815<br
                      class="">
                    Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952<br
                      class="">
                    =============================================== </div>
                </div>
                <br class="">
                <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
                <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
ARIN-PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" moz-do-not-send="true">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>
Please contact <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:info@arin.net" moz-do-not-send="true">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.
</pre>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br class="">
            ARIN-PPML<br class="">
            You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br
              class="">
            the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
              href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br
              class="">
            Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br
              class="">
            <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br
              class="">
            Please contact <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br
              class="">
          </blockquote>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>