<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Exactly, that's the main point about how absurd the idea of
      leasing it, in any form.</p>
    <p>I fell that some people sometimes are able to only look at a
      particular scenario that he/she being involved once or few times
      and believe that is the scenario for everybody else in order to
      justify leasing, so basically to resolve their own particular
      problem as if that was everybody else's problem and tentatively
      force a fundamental change in this system.  Does anyone really
      believe that most arguments  people involved in the leasing
      business are intended to do any good for the whole of the
      community or simply to promote changes to the rules that benefits
      fewer and specifics actors ?<br>
    </p>
    <p>Allowing leasing as some defend is detrimental to the whole RIR
      system and therefore to the whole of the community. IP Leasing
      resolves some minor cases but worse situations that at long term
      make things more difficult, expensive and less accountable,
      therefore less fair to everybody in a well established system.
      This is why justifications such as "need to change because there
      are already people doing it" or "it is the new reality and we have
      to accept" are just beautiful word to try to justify something
      that is not intended to build Internet using these shared
      resources. We can never call it another name - shared resources.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Fernando<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/03/2022 20:28, Holden Karau
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJLcJd_0kCj=eVL5KXUjS21Fj72wHv4V5__WPSr3-qZznD5GDQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Wait so some company could come to ARIN and ask for
        a block of IP addresses using leasing as the justification and
        then turn around and lease them.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>What value is the leasing company providing? It seems like
          a solid way to get a bunch of LLCs formed to acquire IP
          addresses from the waiting list and then make money for doing
          ~nothing.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:18
          PM Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <div>The draft policy as currently written does not provide
              any additional limits against speculation.  As drafted, it
              allows any organization (including those who do not
              operate networks) to obtain IPv4 addresses for the purpose
              of leasing.  </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>With that policy change what types of limits does the
              community think would be needed?</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Thanks,</div>
            <div>Andrew<br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>On 3/17/2022 3:00 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">+1 to both Owen and David Farmer's
                comments. Leasing IPv4 space is likely the best solution
                for some networks that need those addresses to operate
                their network. If an organization wants to acquire and
                lease out IPv4 space without providing bundled IPv4
                transit, that should be allowed by policy. It might be
                useful for ARIN policy to try to slightly dampen
                speculation by requiring that organizations seeking to
                acquire large blocks of IPv4 space demonstrate that
                their current holdings are being efficiently used by the
                organization they're registered to in whois. I am not
                sure if this policy proposal does that to my
                satisfaction, but once we ensure it does so, I would
                likely support it.<br>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>-Scott</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 17, 2022
                  at 1:33 PM Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML <<a
                    href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div><br>
                    <div>
                      <div><br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>On Mar 16, 2022, at 15:22 , Fernando
                            Frediani <<a
                              href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p>Hi David</p>
                              <p>If I understand correctly you seem to
                                have a view that there should be a ARIN
                                policy to permit IPv4 leasing just
                                because it is a reality and we kind of
                                have to accept it in our days. No we
                                don't, and that's for many different
                                reasons.</p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        Well, of course, you are free to deny reality as
                        much as you want. Many people do. It’s not
                        particularly helpful in the discussion, however.</div>
                      <div><br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <p>I am used to see people saying the
                              brokers are doing a good thing for the
                              community by facilitating the things which
                              in reality is the opposite. It may look
                              like a good things, but the real
                              beneficiaries are only them who profit
                              from it without much concern of what is
                              fair or not to most organizations
                              involved.<br>
                            </p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        You are actually mistaken here. I used to think
                        as you do, actually. I was very resistant to the
                        first “specified transfer” policies because of
                        some of the reasons you describe. However, what
                        you are failing to recognize is that:</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Brokers
                        and specified transfers were going to happen
                        with or without the RIRs. If they happened
                        without the RIRs,</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>there’d
                        be no accurate record of who was using which
                        address space and the provenance of addresses
                        would be</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>very
                        difficult to support or defend.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>*<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Benefit
                        to the community from brokers: (ethical) brokers
                        are familiar with the rules in the RIRs in which</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                            </span>they
                        operate and can assist their customers in
                        accurate and compliant registration updates and</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                            </span>aid
                        in keeping the allocation database(s) accurate.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>With
                        the economic realities of IPv4 addresses
                        becoming progressively more and more expensive
                        and the advent</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>of
                        ISPs with limited IPv4 resources available, it
                        is inevitable that more and more IP service
                        providers will be</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>doing
                        one or more of the following:</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Separate
                        surcharges for IPv4 addresses</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Expecting
                        customers to supply their own IPv4 addresses</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Surcharges
                        for IPv4 services</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>IPv4
                        “installation charges” large enough to cover the
                        procurement of addresses</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>*<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Brokers
                        assist ISPs and customers in many of the above
                        circumstances.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>With
                        a variety of organizations holding IPv4
                        addresses that may or may not even known they
                        have them and whose</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>IPv4
                        resources may vastly exceed their needs, it is
                        (arguably) desirable to have those addresses be
                        transferred to parties</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>that
                        have current need for IPv4 addresses.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>*<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Brokers
                        provide a valuable service to the community
                        identifying and marketing these resources</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>*<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Paid
                        transfers provide an incentive for entities to
                        make more efficient use of the resources they
                        have in order</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                    </span>to
                        monetize the resources they no longer need.
                        Brokers are frequently able to assist in this
                        process.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>+<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>With
                        the high cost of acquisition, IPv4 addresses
                        have become a capital intensive part of any
                        network-dependent</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>business
                        model that must support IPv4. Further, there is
                        some risk that this capital outlay may be fore a
                        resource</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>which
                        will abruptly and quickly lose its value and no
                        longer be needed well before it can be amortized
                        as a capital</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>expenditure.
                        As such, it may make sense for some entities to
                        transfer that risk to another organization by
                        using</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>a
                        lease structure instead of purchasing the
                        addresses outright.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">            </span>*<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">       </span>Brokers
                        that provide IPv4 leasing in an ethical and
                        policy compliant way provide a valuable service</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                    </span>to
                        these businesses. Yes, their price per address
                        may eventually be more than it would have cost</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                    </span>them
                        to purchase the addresses, but the same is true
                        of virtually any rental situation.  On the other
                        hand,</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                    </span>that
                        excess helps offset the risk that the lessor is
                        taking by owning a resource that may or may not
                        remain</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">                    </span>valuable
                        and may or may not continue to produce revenue.</div>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <p>IP Leasing is very different from IP
                              Transfer which I see not problem they
                              continue doing it. IP Transfer at least we
                              have some guarantees that the directly
                              receiving organization really justify for
                              them and that is a quiet important (I
                              would say fundamental) point to look at,
                              because that is fairer to everyone
                              involved. What guarantees we have when a
                              IP Leasing is done in that sense, that
                              fairness start to lack here.</p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        If we set the policies up correctly, we should
                        have the same exact guarantees on a lease.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>If
                        $ISP acquires a /10 through transfer and then
                        issues various subordinate prefixes to their
                        customer, the only guarantee</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>you
                        have that $ISP’s customers who receive the
                        addresses really justify them is that $ISP says
                        so. We generally trust $ISP</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>to
                        act in good faith.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>If
                        $LESSOR acquires a /10 through transfer and then
                        leases various subordinate prefixes to their
                        customers, we have pretty</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>much
                        the same guarantee with the additional bit that
                        $CUSTOMER is at least willing to pay enough for
                        the addresses to $LESSOR</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>to
                        make the lease make sense. In general, I think
                        it is somewhat safe to assume that $CUSTOMER is
                        not going to make a</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>monthly
                        recurring payment to $LESSOR for something they
                        don’t intend to use. If one’s intent is to
                        deprive the market and</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>inflate
                        the price, then the risk profile for such a
                        transaction is vastly more favorable if you
                        purchase rather than lease.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>Sure,
                        there could be lessors that don’t get reasonable
                        justification for allocations from their
                        customers, but there are most</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>certainly
                        ISPs in that category as well. Either way,
                        you’ve got very little assurance. A lessor can
                        provide just as much</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>justification
                        to an RIR for the addresses they will allocate
                        to leases as an ISP can for addresses they will
                        lease to their</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>customers.
                        The only difference is a lease with connectivity
                        from the same company or a lease from a company
                        other than</div>
                      <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">    </span>the
                        one(s) providing connectivity.</div>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <p>People see the brokers are doing a favor
                              to organizations in general by
                              facilitating they get some chunks of IPv4,
                              but that in reality makes the cost of IPv4
                              for both leasing and transfer more and
                              more expensive as it makes organization
                              even more dependent from these <span
                                lang="en">those crumbs that seem to be
                                offered with good intention</span> but
                              in reality it is feeding a system that is
                              contrary the interests to most
                              organizations involved.</p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        Just as you are free to mount, balance, and
                        rotate your own tires, or, you can go to a tire
                        store and have them perform that service for a
                        fee, brokers provide a service for a fee. If you
                        want to obtain addresses in the transfer market
                        without a broker, you’re still free to do that.
                        Brokers are not driving the cost of IPv4… The
                        scarcity and difficulty of operating with IPv4
                        is driving the cost of IPv4. Brokers are along
                        for the ride providing a service and collecting
                        a fee for that service. Whether that fee is
                        reasonable or not is (and should be) entirely in
                        the eye of the customer. Customers are always
                        free to walk away and find a different supplier
                        or look for their addresses independently.</div>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <p>It may sound a cliche but IPv4 is over
                              and organizations must learn how to
                              survive with what they have, reinvent
                              themselves and make better used of their
                              IPv4 resources, deploy a proper CGNAT,
                              deploy IPv6 either they like it or not,
                              etc. If an organization have so little or
                              none and need some minimal amount is fine
                              they seek for a Transfer of a minimal
                              amount with the help of brokers. <br>
                            </p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        I agree. However, the increasing cost of IPv4 is
                        a natural and organic part of that process and
                        sticking our heads in the sand and pretending
                        that it is not the economic reality of how the
                        current world works will not help anyone. Not
                        the community, not organizations that are short
                        on IPv4 resources, and not the RIRs who are only
                        useful so long as their databases provide a
                        reasonably accurate reflection of the actual
                        utilization of the address space and who
                        controls it.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>A broker is an LIR just like an ISP. Since
                        ISPs are now charging for addresses independent
                        of connectivity and bandwidth, it only makes
                        sense that customers can shop for them
                        separately from different suppliers. Just like
                        you can buy tires for your car from the
                        dealership or from some other store that sells
                        and supports tires, IPv4 addresses are moving
                        that way as well. The RIRs can either recognize
                        this and adapt to it with policies that make
                        sense and preserve some of the things you’ve
                        outlined as concerns above, or, they can simply
                        deny the reality of IPv4 leasing and lose track
                        of how addresses are actually managed for some
                        significant chunks of the internet.</div>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <p>Encouraging IP Leasing as if it were
                              something normal just "because it exists
                              today" is a shot in the foot that in the
                              long term only worsens the existing
                              scenario, it feeds a market without much
                              discretion increasing final prices for
                              everyone and what is the worst of all,
                              creates even more unfairness for everyone
                              who has always submitted to the rules we
                              have until today for distributing
                              addresses to those who really have a real
                              justification to keep control of that
                              resource that does not belong to them.</p>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        I don’t believe that a policy that merely allows
                        IPv4 leasing can be said to encourage it.
                        Rather, it permits it, recognizes that it exists
                        and is not going to stop existing just because
                        policy pretends it can’t exist.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>The market is not likely to be significantly
                        swayed by policy in terms of pricing, with the
                        exception that AFRINIC has been able to preserve
                        a devalued price on addresses within their
                        region due to their restrictive lack of a
                        transfer policy for moving addresses to/from
                        AFRINIC. However, while this has the effect of
                        keeping AFRINIC IPv4 addresses less expensive on
                        the open market, it also leads to a significant
                        amount of utilization of those addresses outside
                        of policy and quite a bit of hoarding of
                        addresses by some of AFRINIC’s largest members.
                        ARIN’s counsel has advised against naming names
                        here, so I won’t, but if you want names, contact
                        me off list.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Owen</div>
                      <div> <br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <p>Regards<br>
                              Fernando<br>
                            </p>
                            <div>On 16/03/2022 13:09, David Farmer via
                              ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div>Yes, bundling IPv4 addresses with
                                  bandwidth is permitted, and in the
                                  past was common practice, heck even
                                  the expected practice. However, the
                                  fact that IPv4 address demand isn't
                                  decreasing significantly, the costs to
                                  acquire new IPv4 addresses are
                                  increasing significantly, and with the
                                  increasing commoditization of
                                  bandwidth, it is no longer
                                  economically viable to bundle
                                  bandwidth, and its associated
                                  connectivity, with IPv4 addressing.
                                  This is driving a structural
                                  separation of bandwidth, connectivity,
                                  and IPv4 addressing, from each other,
                                  instead of bundling them together as
                                  in the past.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Let me state that differently; ISPs
                                  are being driven, buy cost
                                  conscience consumers, to separate the
                                  costs of bandwidth and the costs of
                                  the IPv4 addresses needed to utilize
                                  the bandwidth from each other. 
                                  Minimally this separation is achieved
                                  by accounting for the costs on
                                  separate line items of a common bill
                                  from a single provider. However, price
                                  competition for bandwidth and IPv4
                                  addresses separately will inevitably
                                  drive a structural separation between
                                  the two. Consumers will want the best
                                  price they can get for bandwidth and
                                  the best price they can get for IPv4
                                  addresses, regardless of whether they
                                  come from a single provider or not.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Some may argue this is being driven
                                  by the existence of address brokers,
                                  and their desire to make money, I
                                  disagree. While address brokers making
                                  money is the grease that keeps this
                                  machine working, the need for the
                                  machine is driven by; IPv4 free pool
                                  exhaustion, the increasing cost of
                                  IPv4 addresses, and the lack of
                                  adoption of IPv6.</div>
                                <div>In other words, address brokers
                                  wouldn't exist if there wasn't a
                                  demand for their services.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>In short, the economic conditions
                                  that allowed for and even encouraged
                                  the bundling of IPv4 addresses with
                                  bandwidth and connectivity no longer
                                  exist, that world is gone. While I
                                  have not personally yet determined if
                                  I support this particular policy
                                  text, nevertheless, the time has come
                                  to recognize the next step in this
                                  inextricable evolution of IPv4 address
                                  policy by the ARIN policy community
                                  and permit IPv4 leasing.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Thanks.</div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                    Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 5:05 PM John
                                    Santos <<a
                                      href="mailto:john@egh.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">john@egh.com</a>>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I
                                    disagree.  The addresses are useless
                                    unless they ALSO purchase access
                                    and <br>
                                    routing from another network
                                    operator.  How is this cheaper?<br>
                                    <br>
                                    It is and always has been allowed to
                                    lease bundled access of addresses
                                    and <br>
                                    connectivity from a LIR, without any
                                    expense for purchasing those
                                    addresses.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    On 3/11/2022 12:13 PM, Tom Fantacone
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    > I support the proposal as
                                    written.<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > It facilitates the provision of
                                    a valuable service to a large swath
                                    of the ARIN <br>
                                    > community, namely the ability
                                    of network operators with an
                                    operational need to <br>
                                    > lease IPv4 addresses from 3rd
                                    party lessors at a fraction of the
                                    cost of <br>
                                    > purchasing those addresses. 
                                    Too often we have seen network
                                    operators justify <br>
                                    > their need for IPv4 space only
                                    to find that they can't afford to
                                    make the <br>
                                    > purchase.  They end up using
                                    CGNAT or some other sub-optimal
                                    solution.<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > Bill, regarding your point "B",
                                    by providing IPv4 leasing, these 3rd
                                    parties are <br>
                                    > certainly performing a function
                                    that ARIN does not.<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > ---- On Thu, 10 Mar 2022
                                    17:46:36 -0500 *William Herrin <<a
                                      href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bill@herrin.us</a>>*
                                    wrote ----<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >     On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 8:24
                                    PM ARIN <<a
                                      href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a
                                      href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>>><br>
                                    >     wrote:<br>
                                    >      > * ARIN-2021-6: Permit
                                    IPv4 Leased Addresses for Purposes
                                    of Determining<br>
                                    >     Utilization for Future
                                    Allocations<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >     I continue to OPPOSE this
                                    proposal because:<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >     A) It asks ARIN to
                                    facilitate blatant and unapologetic
                                    rent-seeking<br>
                                    >     behavior with changes to
                                    public policy.<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >     B) It proposes that third
                                    parties perform precisely and only
                                    the<br>
                                    >     functions that ARIN itself
                                    performs without any credible
                                    compliance<br>
                                    >     mechanism to assure the
                                    third party performs to ARIN's
                                    standards or in<br>
                                    >     accordance with the
                                    community's established number
                                    policy.<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >     Regards,<br>
                                    >     Bill Herrin<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >     -- <br>
                                    >     William Herrin<br>
                                    >     <a
                                      href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bill@herrin.us</a> <mailto:<a
                                      href="mailto:bill@herrin.us"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
                                    >     <a
                                      href="https://bill.herrin.us/"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bill.herrin.us/</a> <<a
                                      href="https://bill.herrin.us/"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://bill.herrin.us/</a>><br>
                                    >   
                                     _______________________________________________<br>
                                    >     ARIN-PPML<br>
                                    >     You are receiving this
                                    message because you are subscribed
                                    to<br>
                                    >     the ARIN Public Policy
                                    Mailing List (<a
                                      href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
                                    >     <mailto:<a
                                      href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>>).<br>
                                    >     Unsubscribe or manage your
                                    mailing list subscription at:<br>
                                    >     <a
                                      href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
                                    >     <<a
                                      href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>><br>
                                    >     Please contact <a
                                      href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a
                                      href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>>
                                    if you experience any<br>
                                    >     issues.<br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > <br>
                                    > <br>
                                    >
                                    _______________________________________________<br>
                                    > ARIN-PPML<br>
                                    > You are receiving this message
                                    because you are subscribed to<br>
                                    > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing
                                    List (<a
                                      href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
                                    > Unsubscribe or manage your
                                    mailing list subscription at:<br>
                                    > <a
                                      href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
                                    > Please contact <a
                                      href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if
                                    you experience any issues.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    -- <br>
                                    John Santos<br>
                                    Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br>
                                    781-861-0670 ext 539<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                    ARIN-PPML<br>
                                    You are receiving this message
                                    because you are subscribed to<br>
                                    the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List
                                    (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
                                    Unsubscribe or manage your mailing
                                    list subscription at:<br>
                                    <a
                                      href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
                                    Please contact <a
                                      href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if
                                    you experience any issues.<br>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br clear="all">
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                -- <br>
                                <div dir="ltr">===============================================<br>
                                  David Farmer               <a
                                    href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
                                  Networking & Telecommunication
                                  Services<br>
                                  Office of Information Technology<br>
                                  University of Minnesota   <br>
                                  2218 University Ave SE        Phone:
                                  612-626-0815<br>
                                  Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell:
                                  612-812-9952<br>
=============================================== </div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <fieldset></fieldset>
                              <pre>_______________________________________________
ARIN-PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.
</pre>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          ARIN-PPML<br>
                          You are receiving this message because you are
                          subscribed to<br>
                          the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
                            href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
                          Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
                          subscription at:<br>
                          <a
                            href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
                          Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>
                          if you experience any issues.<br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  ARIN-PPML<br>
                  You are receiving this message because you are
                  subscribed to<br>
                  the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
                    href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
                  Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription
                  at:<br>
                  <a
                    href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
                  Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if
                  you experience any issues.<br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset></fieldset>
              <pre>_______________________________________________
ARIN-PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.
</pre>
            </blockquote>
            <p><br>
            </p>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          ARIN-PPML<br>
          You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
          the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
            href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
          Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
          <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
          Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">info@arin.net</a>
          if you experience any issues.<br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br clear="all">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      -- <br>
      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Twitter: </span><a
                            href="https://twitter.com/holdenkarau"
                            style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://twitter.com/holdenkarau</a><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Books (Learning Spark, High Performance
                          Spark, etc.): <a
                            href="https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 </a></div>
                        <div>YouTube Live Streams: <a
                            href="https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau</a></div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
ARIN-PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>
Please contact <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>