<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>Hi John,<br></div><div><br></div><div>These days it's pretty hard to find an LIR who will bundle a substantial number of addresses at no additional charge with a circuit, and that's assuming they have the addresses available to bundle. With IPv4 scarcity, we more often see an LIR client request, say, an /18, and perhaps be able to justify it, but their ISP can only allocate a /22 or /21 given their own shortage of addresses. Those LIRs that do have the space are charging for it, either directly or by bundling it into the circuit price. Nevertheless, there are still certainly cases where what you are saying is true, and the client can get what they need from their upstream LIR.<br></div><div><br></div><div>What I was comparing is the cost of an end user purchasing a block on the transfer market vs. leasing one from a 3rd party lessor. These might be the only 2 options for the client for the reasons I mentioned above, or because they want to multi-home, or because they want the flexibility of moving providers without having to renumber, or for whatever reason network operators currently purchase IPv4 space on the transfer market vs. trying to get them from their upstream.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Tom Fantacone<br></div><div><br></div><div class="zmail_extra_hr" style="border-top: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; line-height: 0px;"><br></div><div class="zmail_extra" data-zbluepencil-ignore="true"><div><br></div><div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1">---- On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 18:04:52 -0500 <b>John Santos <john@egh.com></b> wrote ----<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px;"><div>I disagree. The addresses are useless unless they ALSO purchase access and <br>routing from another network operator. How is this cheaper?<br><br>It is and always has been allowed to lease bundled access of addresses and <br>connectivity from a LIR, without any expense for purchasing those addresses.<br><br><br>On 3/11/2022 12:13 PM, Tom Fantacone wrote:<br>> I support the proposal as written.<br>> <br>> It facilitates the provision of a valuable service to a large swath of the ARIN <br>> community, namely the ability of network operators with an operational need to <br>> lease IPv4 addresses from 3rd party lessors at a fraction of the cost of <br>> purchasing those addresses. Too often we have seen network operators justify <br>> their need for IPv4 space only to find that they can't afford to make the <br>> purchase. They end up using CGNAT or some other sub-optimal solution.<br>> <br>> Bill, regarding your point "B", by providing IPv4 leasing, these 3rd parties are <br>> certainly performing a function that ARIN does not.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ---- On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:46:36 -0500 *William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">bill@herrin.us</a>>* wrote ----<br>> <br>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 8:24 PM ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">info@arin.net</a>>><br>> wrote:<br>> > * ARIN-2021-6: Permit IPv4 Leased Addresses for Purposes of Determining<br>> Utilization for Future Allocations<br>> <br>> I continue to OPPOSE this proposal because:<br>> <br>> A) It asks ARIN to facilitate blatant and unapologetic rent-seeking<br>> behavior with changes to public policy.<br>> <br>> B) It proposes that third parties perform precisely and only the<br>> functions that ARIN itself performs without any credible compliance<br>> mechanism to assure the third party performs to ARIN's standards or in<br>> accordance with the community's established number policy.<br>> <br>> Regards,<br>> Bill Herrin<br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> William Herrin<br>> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">bill@herrin.us</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>> <a href="https://bill.herrin.us/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">https://bill.herrin.us/</a> <<a href="https://bill.herrin.us/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">https://bill.herrin.us/</a>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> ARIN-PPML<br>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>>).<br>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>> <<a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>><br>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">info@arin.net</a>> if you experience any<br>> issues.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> ARIN-PPML<br>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>> <a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br><br>-- <br>John Santos<br>Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br>781-861-0670 ext 539<br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238);">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div><br></body></html>