<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Completely agree… There was no expectation that this would become policy. The point was to clarify the arguments against leasing and get the discussion going in a more useful direction.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It has achieved that goal and provoked generally the exact reaction(s) expected, especially from ARIN counsel.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 22, 2021, at 10:23 , Middleton, Stephen R <<a href="mailto:stephen.r.middleton@verizon.com" class="">stephen.r.middleton@verizon.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hello Owen,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">"...<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class="">effectively prevent all LIRs from engaging in leasing transactions or (sur)charging on the basis of the number of IP number resources issued."
This should be more accurately stated as "...</span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class="">effectively prevent all ARIN-based LIRs from engaging in leasing transactions or (sur)charging on the basis of the number of IP number resources issued." Do you know if other RIRs prevent the leasing, surcharging, or both of IP addresses? How would 'out of region' leases be handled? What would stop a company from transferring ARIN-based IP addresses to an RIR that allows leasing and then engaging in that business model from that point forward? </span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><br class=""></span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class="">What would prevent a company from charging a fee based on some other datapoint; a service fee, a static configuration fee, an engineering fee, etc., that, in effect, replaces the term 'IP Surcharge'?</span></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class="">
</span><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class="">I'm afraid that I must agree with Michel. I see no effective way of enforcing this policy, either regionally or globally.</span></p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class="">Best Regards,</span><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.verizon.com/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"NeueHaasGroteskText Std",sans-serif;color:blue" class=""><img border="0" width="90" height="20" src="https://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-sig-verizon?$defaultscale$" alt="Verizon" class=""></span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">Stephen R. Middleton, Sr.<br class=""></span><span style="font-family:nhg-text-bold,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px" class="">Princ Engr-Ntwk Engring</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span><span style="font-family:nhg-text-bold,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px" class="">Network Engineering and Ops</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
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<a href="mailto:stephen.r.middleton@one.verizon.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(0,102,204)" class="">stephen.r.middleton@one.verizon.com</span></a><br class=""></span></p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/verizon" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"NeueHaasGroteskText Std",sans-serif;color:blue" class=""><img border="0" width="7" height="18" src="https://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-sig-facebook?$defaultscale$" alt="Facebook" class=""></span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""> </span><a href="http://twitter.com/verizon" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"NeueHaasGroteskText Std",sans-serif;color:blue" class=""><img border="0" width="15" height="18" src="https://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-sig-twitter?$defaultscale$" alt="Twitter" class=""></span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "NeueHaasGroteskText Std", sans-serif;" class=""> </span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/verizon" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"NeueHaasGroteskText Std",sans-serif;color:blue" class=""><img border="0" width="14" height="18" src="https://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-sig-linkedin?$defaultscale$" alt="LinkedIn" class=""></span></a><br class=""></p></div></div></div><br class=""><input name="virtru-metadata" type="hidden" value="{"email-policy":{"state":"closed","expirationUnit":"days","disableCopyPaste":false,"disablePrint":false,"disableForwarding":false,"enableNoauth":false,"persistentProtection":false,"expandedWatermarking":false,"expires":false,"isManaged":false},"attachments":{},"compose-id":"47","compose-window":{"secure":false}}" class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 12:49 PM Michel Py via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">> Owen DeLong wrote :<br class="">
> Policy Proposal Name: Ban IP Number Resource Leasing in the ARIN Region<br class="">
<br class="">
Besides the scope and similar issues :<br class="">
<br class="">
In utopia, I would support this.<br class="">
But in the real world, it's not realistic. ARIN would not be able to enforce such thing, and it may be a double-edge sword.<br class="">
<br class="">
Besides the point, let's assume that, beating impossible odds, we manage to amend the US constitution to ban IP leasing in the US.<br class="">
[Let's conveniently forget that it would be opposed by powerful companies with very deep pockets that own half of the lobbyists in town]<br class="">
<br class="">
Would it stop it ? no. We would instantly create a black market and make a modern-day Al Capone.<br class="">
<br class="">
Michel.<br class="">
<br class="">
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