<div><div dir="ltr"></div></div><div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 8:26 PM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 17, 2021, at 10:57 , David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">The lines between what is an end-user and what is an ISP are getting very blurry these days. Is there really a difference between a data center, a university campus network, an enterprise network, and a small ISP each with a /20? </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>The use of the term ISP is what makes them blurry… s/ISP/LIR/ and it gets a lot simpler.</div><div><br></div><div>Are you running an IP registry where you assign and/or allocate addresses to external downstream organizations? YES-> LIR… NO-> End User.</div><div><br></div><div>Pretty much that simple.</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It ain’t really that simple, I wish it was.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div dir="auto"></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div><div dir="auto">So some small ISPs, especially WISPs, may not actually SWIP any customers, because they don't assign any customers a /29, they just DHCP individual addresses to customers, or they may even NAT their customers. Are they an end-user since they don't SWIP, or an LIR because they are an ISP and sell connectivity?</div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div dir="auto">Data centers, run similarly, some do SWIPs and some don’t. Why is it fair the data center that SWIPs gets one rate and the one that doesn’t gets a lower rate, sometimes an order of magnitude lower? They mostly are in the same business, and both usually sell connectivity, why different rates?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Why should an enterprise with a few thousand employees get one rate and an ISP with the same number of customers have a much higher rate? Are there networks that much different? Furthermore, an enterprise with a few thousand employees probably has many times the revenue, than the ISP with the same numbers of customers. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And, you’ve been advocating for address leasing lately, so LIRs/ISPs, and maybe data centers, get to monetize their addresses, but enterprises can’t? The more addresses are monetized the blurrier the lines get. </div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Further, I’m not sure there ever was that much of a difference in the burden on ARIN, between ISPs and similar sized end-users.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Personally, my biggest regret is ARIN didn’t give end-users more than a full years notice to ensure the increases could have been properly put into budgets, and maybe a multi-year phase-in for the largest increases.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Nevertheless, it really isn’t as simple as you want to make it.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div></div></div>
</div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div>