<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 15, 2021, at 22:17 , Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><div class="">I think that should put to an all member vote on a matter like this.<br class="">They have so many damn mailings, it is done on purpose so that they can say it was put out on this other mailing list.<br class="">Either that or campaign for new board members. And John just as well be replaced also. He been there too long.<br class="">My math doesn't match Owen's ? math either.<br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>My math was based on modern internet protocols.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>John’s math is correct… 2x fee = (mostly) 4x IPv4 in the current fee structure.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__" class=""><div data-marker="__HEADERS__" class=""><b class="">From: </b>"Mark McDonald" <<a href="mailto:markm@siteserver.com" class="">markm@siteserver.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">To: </b>"John Curran" <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" class="">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc: </b>"arin-ppml" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent: </b>Wednesday, September 15, 2021 5:20:51 PM<br class=""><b class="">Subject: </b>{Spam?} Re: [arin-ppml] Open Letter Regarding 650% Rate-Hike for Legacy Users<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__" class="">Hi John,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>We must be looking at different fee charts. Can you send me the one you’re referring to? We hold a /19 and fall under the “Small” service category, paying roughly $0.12/IP/Year. Right off the bat, we’re in the same service category as someone holding a /18, so we’re paying twice as much per IPv4 Resource as them - but wait, it gets much, much better. Those holding a /8 are paying $0.0038/IP/Year - *64X* less than our company per IPv4 resource. Someone over there failed math class if the goal was to level the costs among all users.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If ARIN’s goal is to get everyone paying the same per/resource, our bill should go down to $31.13/year so we’re paying the same per resource as those issued /8’s. For an organization that’s trying to promote IP conservation, your metrics show you’re promoting the opposite - the larger the block, the less I pay.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I broke it all down for you here:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">CIDR<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Number of IP's<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Service Category<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Fee<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Fee per/IPv4 (Resource)<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>% of full cost (/24) per/resource<br class="">/24<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>256<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3X-Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$250.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.9766<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class="">/23<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>512<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2X-Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$500.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.9766<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>100.00%<br class="">/22<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1,024<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2X-Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$500.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.4883<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>50.00%<br class="">/21<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2,048<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>X-Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$1,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.4883<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>50.00%<br class="">/20<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4,096<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>X-Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$1,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.2441<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>25.00%<br class="">/19<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>8,192<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$2,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.2441<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>25.00%<br class="">/18<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>16,384<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Small<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$2,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.1221<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>12.50%<br class="">/17<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>32,768<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Medium<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$4,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.1221<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>12.50%<br class="">/16<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>65,536<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Medium<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$4,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0610<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>6.25%<br class="">/15<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>131,072<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$8,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0610<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>6.25%<br class="">/14<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>262,144<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$8,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0305<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.13%<br class="">/13<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>524,288<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$16,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0305<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.13%<br class="">/12<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1,048,576<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$16,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0153<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.56%<br class="">/11<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2,097,152<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$32,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0153<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.56%<br class="">/10<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4,194,304<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$32,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0076<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>0.78%<br class="">/9<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>8,388,608<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$64,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0076<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>0.78%<br class="">/8<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>16,777,216<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$64,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0038<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>0.39%<br class="">/7<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>33,554,432<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$128,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0038<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>0.39%<br class="">/6<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>67,108,864<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4X-Large<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$128,000.00<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>$0.0019<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>0.20%</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I sincerely hope ARIN re-thinks this before implementation. That’s what would be fair and equitable for all.</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">-Mark McDonald</div><div class="">President/CEO</div><div class="">Siteserver, Inc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">
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<div class=""><br class=""><blockquote class=""><div class="">On Sep 15, 2021, at 1:05 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" class="">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
<div class="">Mark - </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>In April of this year, we announced a consultation on the matter of harmonizing ARIN’s fees and many of the issues you raised were discussed at that time on the ARIN-consult mailing list
- <a href="https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2021-April/date.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" class="">https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2021-April/date.html</a><br data-mce-bogus="1" class=""></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>As noted in that discussion, 3621 end-user customers will see their fees decrease as a result of change. 4431 end-users (those with larger IP address holdings) will see their fees increase.
After the fee changes, all customers will be paying the same fees based on their total IPv4 resources held. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Regarding ISP/EU fees distribution, note that ARIN’s expected total fees paid in 2021 are approximately $21 million – with ISP’s paying the overwhelming majority of the costs at approximately
$17M annually. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks,</div>
<div class="">/John</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">John Curran</div>
<div class="">President and CEO</div>
<div class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
On 15 Sep 2021, at 3:21 PM, Mark McDonald <<a href="mailto:markm@siteserver.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" class="">markm@siteserver.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Mr. Curran,<br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>It’s unfortunate to learn about ARIN’s proposal to increase our rates by 650% from one year to the next from your EMail. It would have been nice to receive this when this measure was being proposed.
In looking through various member forums, it appears we aren’t alone. While I can appreciate your desire to standardize rates between End Users and ISP’s, it’s obvious that ARIN provides a different set of services for ISP’s as it does End Users. For us,
ARIN stores < 50k of data in a database - similar to a Domain Registration from Network Solutions. They’re somehow able to perform these services for about $9/year. ARIN has historically charged us $300/year for this service, and is now raising rates by
650% to $2000.00/year. And for what? The IPv4 pool is depleted so there is no value in attempting to obtain additional IPv4 resources, while IPv6 resources are limitless, and are charged accordingly.<br class="">
<br class="">
For End Users, there are no ongoing SWIP assignments or ongoing actions from ARIN that require ARIN’s resources and for those that there are, ARIN charges for those services (new assignments, transfers, etc). We maintain numerous resources with ARIN through
a different ISP account for resources used for ISP services and pay fees (and utilize services) accordingly.<br class="">
<br class="">
When ARIN, or any organizational body, sends out an email stating rates are raising 650%, it makes me question how an organization that could do something for a a set fee for so long suddenly can’t and needs to implement drastic measures to “recoup” these fees.
It wreaks of inefficiency as ARIN’s number of resources managed is going up, not down and with any business, the cost to provide services goes down as the number of customers (resources) goes up.<br class="">
<br class="">
I was trying to look through the ARIN organizational documents and recent Annual Reports to see how ARIN’s income is represented (percentage of ISP vs End-User, RSP vs Non-RSP) as your Email lacks this important information, however I was unable to find this.
It would be much appreciated if you could provide it. As a user of ARIN’s services, it would be nice to see exactly how much of a rate increase this is (increasing ARIN revenue) vs standardizing rates, which would re-rate *everybody* (raising some, lowering
others) so that ARIN’s revenue remained neutral while equally balancing costs to provide services.<br class="">
<br class="">
In owning and operating businesses in the IT space, I’ve always viewed ARIN as a fair and equitable organization. Until today. Your email lacked critical information that would have shown this as a “standardization of rates” vs a rate hike on what appears
to be all legacy customers. Perhaps the rates ARIN is charging them isn’t too low, but the rates you’re charging ISP’s is too high, or perhaps somewhere in between.<br class="">
<br class="">
>From the Emails I’ve already received from other parties this affects, it appears the courts will ultimately decide what is legitimate and what is not, however I feel this could have all been avoided with better communication.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Sincerely,<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Mark McDonald<br class="">
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
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