<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 7, 2021, at 11:03 , John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" class="">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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On 7 Sep 2021, at 1:34 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">We will number X internet connected hosts on our own infrastructure
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<div class="">That is fine and routinely satisfied. </div>
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<div class="">and Y internet connected hosts on our customers’ networks.<br class="">
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<div class="">That’s not considered part of your technical need for your organization's network, and would be excluded. </div>
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I’m talking about in an LIR application, not end user… Try again.</div>
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The conservation principle an overall principle contained in section 1 – i.e. "1. Principles and Goals of the American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)” i</div>
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<div class="">As such, the issuance of number resources must be for “<b class="">a technical need for them in support of operational networks."</b></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Right… And an LIR’s customers with operational networks would be such a valid technical need regardless of where or how</div><div>that LIR’s customers connected those networks to whatever other networks. What am I missing?</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
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<div class="">Would ARIN decline such a request? If so, where in policy is the basis to decline such a request?</div>
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<div class="">The portion related to another organization’s technical need for number resources would be declined, as the conservation principle in NRPM section 1 requires that ARIN issues number resources to organizations based on their _technical need_ in
support of operational networks – </div>
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So how do LIRs work in the ARIN region under this circumstance?</div>
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<div class="">How does Comcast have so much space if they don’t distribute a lot of it to their customers under ARIN policy?</div>
<div class="">Same question for AT&T, Verizon, AWS, Microsoft, XO Communications, Savvis, Century Link (or whatever they call themselves this week), etc.?</div>
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They do distribute IP addresses to their customers as a result of the provision of their network services. <br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>So this is still another organization’s technical need for number resources. It’s not the LIR’s need for number resources,</div><div>it’s their customers’ need for those resources. That’s my point.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">1. Principles and Goals of the American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">1.2. Conservation<br class="">
The principle of conservation guarantees sustainability of the Internet through efficient utilization of unique number resources.<br class="">
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Due to the requirement for uniqueness, Internet number resources of each type are drawn from a common number space.
<b class="">Conservation of these common number spaces requires that Internet number resources be efficiently distributed to those organizations who have a technical need for them in support of operational networks.</b></blockquote>
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<div class="">If for some reason you’d like the concept of “technical need" for number resources to somehow be redefined to encompass your financial desire to satisfy the number resource needs of other organizations, then submit a proposal to change policy
accordingly for consideration by the ARIN community. </div>
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Nope… I’m fine with current policy, but I don’t think you’ve answered the actual question as it appears that you’ve applied end-user criteria to what I am terming as an LIR request.</div>
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<div class="">Principle applies the same either way. As you noted, there is a way around that - provision VPN services with IP address as a component of that service.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>OK, so as long as GRE tunnels that never actually carry traffic are created as a fig leaf to cover the lease, it’s OK and within policy, but without such GRE tunnels, you believe it to be a violation of policy.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Glad to have you on record for this (though still not convinced that’s what the policy manual actually says).</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div></body></html>