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<p>+1</p>
<p>Pretty good and clear explanation.<br>
I am glad that more most people seem to reject the idea that IP
leasing may be a good or even justified thing, including for those
who end up paying for it.</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/09/2021 22:33, John Curran wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:C11F167B-5906-4826-AB7B-50AD45ABDF10@arin.net">
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On 8 Sep 2021, at 5:02 PM, Owen DeLong <<a
href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">owen@delong.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On Sep 7, 2021, at 11:03 , John
Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br
class="">
<div class="">
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<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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<div class="">
<div class="">...</div>
The conservation principle an overall principle
contained in section 1 – i.e. "1. Principles and
Goals of the American Registry for Internet
Numbers (ARIN)” i</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As such, the issuance of number
resources must be for “<b class="">a technical
need for them in support of operational
networks."</b></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Right… And an LIR’s customers with operational networks
would be such a valid technical need regardless of where
or how</div>
<div class="">that LIR’s customers connected those
networks to whatever other networks. What am I missing?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Owen - </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>That would be a valid technical need for IP address space,
but it is not the ISP’s technical need driven by their
operational networks (unless the ISP is providing some
connectivity services.) </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>A customer with an operational network could easily have
technical need for additional IP address space – for example, a
customer which has the need for additional space to grow their
network can come to ARIN and get more space per policy. </div>
<div>
<div class="">
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line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
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</div>
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line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">
They do distribute IP addresses to their customers
as a result of the provision of their network
services. <br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
So this is still another organization’s technical need for
number resources. It’s not the LIR’s need for number
resources,</div>
<div class="">it’s their customers’ need for those
resources. That’s my point.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
It is interesting how hard you try to twist interpretation
against plain language, common sense, and ARIN’s entire history
of existing practice – all in order to make leasing to address
space to parties have no relation to your network services
somehow now be a valid technical need for more address space.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Under such a theory, the first LIR at ARIN could claim that
they have technical need for more blocks to support their
forthcoming leasing to all cloud providers in North America (a
lot of need indeed)… The fact that you have business
relationship with a party does not make _their_ technical
requirements somehow into _your_ technical requirements. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>On the other hand. when an ISP connects a customer to the
Internet, they often do need to supply some address space to the
customer for use in the customer’s network - it might be a
single IP address for a customer CPE, or it could be an large
block because the customer wants all of the devices on their
internal network to now have Internet access – i.e. precisely
why they purchased Internet service. The address space needed
by the ISP is a valid technical need because ISP requires it for
the connectivity service being provisioned, even if some of it
is sub-assigned and utilized on customers network
infrastructure. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>This is common practice, and nearly everyone in the ARIN ISP
community is both aware of it and has submitted resource
requests accordingly. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Principle applies the same either way.
As you noted, there is a way around that -
provision VPN services with IP address as a
component of that service.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
OK, so as long as GRE tunnels that never actually carry
traffic are created as a fig leaf to cover the lease, it’s
OK and within policy, ...</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Incorrect, as that is not what I said – at no point did I say
“VPN services that never carry traffic” represent a valid
technical need. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>A party which indicates on their resource request that their
technical need is driven by growth in VPN services that _never_
will carry any actual traffic would be obviously be engaging in
some creative fabrication, and thus declined. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">but without such GRE tunnels, you believe it
to be a violation of policy.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Glad to have you on record for this (though
still not convinced that’s what the policy manual actually
says).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As noted above, you can try to reinterpret the
policy language all day to justify leasing as a valid need
for number resources, but that’s contrary to the
understanding of the ARIN community and more than two
decades of operating practice.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you really want to change ARIN’s existing
number resource policy to meet your creative new world view,
please put in a policy proposal to make the change and let
the community discuss and decide whether solely utilization
due to leasing of address space to others should be
considered a valid need for receiving additional number
resource issuance. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards,</div>
<div class="">/John</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">John Curran</div>
<div class="">President and CEO</div>
<div class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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