<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’m sure John will correct me if I’m wrong here, but to the best of my knowledge,</div>in fact, the board has the power to set or modify policies independent of this group. The board has, by its own decisions, vested some of that power in this group and some in the AC. The board has set certain limits on its own power in this regard, but the board does technically have the power to change those limits.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The boards accountability to the membership is largely limited to the election of board members and the general fiduciary responsibilities of board membership in this type of organization (as enforced through the courts and/or criminal and civil statutes, laws, and regulations).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t know about the other RIRs, but in terms of ARIN, a careful reading of the bylaws shows that for better or worse, the board has near absolute power over virtually all aspects of the organization and its operations. We are fortunate in that we have consistently had a good and beneficent board with good leadership acting in good faith. I hope the members will continue to elect such individuals and that this tradition will continue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ARIN as it is currently structured would not be (IMHO) particularly resilient against a corrupt or ill-motivated board willing to act in bad faith. Fortunately, I think that the likelihood of such a board getting elected is very low.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class=""><p class="">I am sure we are talking about the same thing David.</p><p class="">The authority to establish the rules in which resources are
allocated and revoked is a prerogative from this forum (which
includes members and non-members), as in any other RIR. The PDP
guarantees the Board the ultimate authority to adopt a new
policies in order to make sure it is in line with all legal and
operational aspects of the RIR system.<br class="">
The authority to establish fee structure, operational procedures,
etc is a prerogative from the Board and Staff.<br class="">
</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/01/2021 22:15, David Farmer
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN-Dau1ppmejihA2yXywDe6jMgiC3+3KyHfaQCcN=i2qfphWEQ@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">No it doesn’t, that authority comes from the
membership, not this policy forum. Yes, there is significant
overlap between the two, but they are distinct groups.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at
18:23 Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=""><p class="">Hi David</p><p class="">I am not against it has, but it does because the
authority given to them for that come from this forum
(for the revocation part not the fee structure).<br class="">
4.2.1.2 makes it very clear and doesn't go into any
operational details and this proposal is willing to
remove it.</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 16/01/2021 20:42, David Farmer wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">The Board has the power to set fees,
which includes at least the power to revoke resources
for nonpayment. If it did not, the power to set fees
would be meaningless.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 16, 2021
at 5:29 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class=""><p class="">John, let's make it simple: The Board has no
power to *make and adopt policies* concerning
resources allocation without passing in this
forum. Look: make policies not just adopt them !<br class="">
</p><p class="">Yes we all understand it has the ultimate
authority to adopt all ARIN's policies, but it
*cannot make and adopt any policies by itself*.
That is a sole prerogative from this forum to
initiate, discuss and agree on it to *then* pass
it to them for approval.<br class="">
Therefore Board has no power to determine the
conditions for resources to be allocated or
revoked. This forum does and why I am of that
the current text is fine to remain as it is as
it is not causing any trouble and doesn't go
into any operational details.<br class="">
</p><p class="">The text in the proposal doesn't refer to how
fees are structured, but only mentions that lack
of payment is a reason for revocation (again a
sole prerogative of this forum to define not the
Board). In other words the authority for ARIN to
revoke resources always comes from this forum.<br class="">
As a suggestion to this proposal why not make
more clear and something similar to what LACNIC
has which mentions that violations to the
contract leads to revocation ?<br class="">
</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 16/01/2021 19:30, John Curran wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""> On 16 Jan 2021, at 3:39
PM, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Exactly John, that's why the Board of
Trustees or equivalent body has to
approve policies that advances from
this forum, to make sure they are in
line with the applicable law,
operational impacts, etc. But the
Board has not power to make policies
or define rules for allocation of
revocation.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Fernando - </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That is also incorrect in the ARIN region
(“But the Board has not power to make policies
or define rules for allocation of
revocation.”) The ARIN Board of Trustees has
the full authority of the organization, having
been elected by the membership - this includes
the ultimate authority to adopt all of ARIN’s
number resource policies. In its deep wisdom,
the ARIN Board of Trustees adopted a Policy
Development Process that delegates and
constrains its role in the normal course of
policy development, but that does not change
the underlying authority to define the
policies by which ARIN operates. </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="">More important to highlight is that
any policies regarding allocation of
revocation come exclusively from this
forum. If this forum defines lack of
payment is one of that reasons for
revocation of resources and Board
approves it according to the PDP, then
the Board is free to adjust the RSA
and whatever procedures necessary to
make it happen.<br class="">
</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">Again, that is not the case in the ARIN
region, and it might be best if you refrain
from make assertions regarding the
functioning of authority in the ARIN region
without further research. Note - I am also
available at any time if you wish to discuss
specifics of ARIN authority and operation -
feel free to reach out to me to arrange if
needed. </div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="">What I am saying with is that it is
in its prerogatives for this forum to
keep in the policy text that lack of
payment is a reason for revocation.
There is not reason to remove what is
in there, it will not cause any harm
or conflict to whatever the Board
decides the RSA will be.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class="">The policy writeup notes "The AC’s
understanding is that community policy
should not include language referring to
fees, as such language is already present
in the Registration Services Agreement
(RSA)” – this statement is accurate, which
suggests that the proposed change to
policy text is well-considered.</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks,</div>
<div class="">/John</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">John Curran</div>
<div class="">President and CEO</div>
<div class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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