<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’m sure John will correct me if I’m wrong here, but to the best of my knowledge,</div>in fact, the board has the power to set or modify policies independent of this group. The board has, by its own decisions, vested some of that power in this group and some in the AC. The board has set certain limits on its own power in this regard, but the board does technically have the power to change those limits.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The boards accountability to the membership is largely limited to the election of board members and the general fiduciary responsibilities of board membership in this type of organization (as enforced through the courts and/or criminal and civil statutes, laws, and regulations).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t know about the other RIRs, but in terms of ARIN, a careful reading of the bylaws shows that for better or worse, the board has near absolute power over virtually all aspects of the organization and its operations. We are fortunate in that we have consistently had a good and beneficent board with good leadership acting in good faith. I hope the members will continue to elect such individuals and that this tradition will continue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ARIN as it is currently structured would not be (IMHO) particularly resilient against a corrupt or ill-motivated board willing to act in bad faith. Fortunately, I think that the likelihood of such a board getting elected is very low.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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  <div class=""><p class="">I am sure we are talking about the same thing David.</p><p class="">The authority to establish the rules in which resources are
      allocated and revoked is a prerogative from this forum (which
      includes members and non-members), as in any other RIR. The PDP
      guarantees the Board the ultimate authority to adopt a new
      policies in order to make sure it is in line with all legal and
      operational aspects of the RIR system.<br class="">
      The authority to establish fee structure, operational procedures,
      etc is a prerogative from the Board and Staff.<br class="">
    </p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/01/2021 22:15, David Farmer
      wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN-Dau1ppmejihA2yXywDe6jMgiC3+3KyHfaQCcN=i2qfphWEQ@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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      <div dir="auto" class="">No it doesn’t, that authority comes from the
        membership, not this policy forum. Yes, there is significant
        overlap between the two, but they are distinct groups.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at
            18:23 Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:<br class="">
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class=""><p class="">Hi David</p><p class="">I am not against it has, but it does because the
                authority given to them for that come from this forum
                (for the revocation part not the fee structure).<br class="">
                4.2.1.2 makes it very clear and doesn't go into any
                operational details and this proposal is willing to
                remove it.</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
              </p>
              <div class="">On 16/01/2021 20:42, David Farmer wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div dir="ltr" class="">The Board has the power to set fees,
                  which includes at least the power to revoke resources
                  for nonpayment. If it did not, the power to set fees
                  would be meaningless.
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Thanks</div>
                </div>
                <br class="">
                <div class="gmail_quote">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 16, 2021
                    at 5:29 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
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                    <div class=""><p class="">John, let's make it simple: The Board has no
                        power to *make and adopt policies* concerning
                        resources allocation without passing in this
                        forum. Look: make policies not just adopt them !<br class="">
                      </p><p class="">Yes we all understand it has the ultimate
                        authority to adopt all ARIN's policies, but it
                        *cannot make and adopt any policies by itself*.
                        That is a sole prerogative from this forum to
                        initiate, discuss and agree on it to *then* pass
                        it to them for approval.<br class="">
                        Therefore Board has no power to determine the
                        conditions for resources to be allocated or
                        revoked. This forum does and why I am of that
                        the current text is fine to remain as it is as
                        it is not causing any trouble and doesn't go
                        into any operational details.<br class="">
                      </p><p class="">The text in the proposal doesn't refer to how
                        fees are structured, but only mentions that lack
                        of payment is a reason for revocation (again a
                        sole prerogative of this forum to define not the
                        Board). In other words the authority for ARIN to
                        revoke resources always comes from this forum.<br class="">
                        As a suggestion to this proposal why not make
                        more clear and something similar to what LACNIC
                        has which mentions that violations to the
                        contract leads to revocation ?<br class="">
                      </p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
                      </p>
                      <div class="">On 16/01/2021 19:30, John Curran wrote:<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite" class=""> On 16 Jan 2021, at 3:39
                        PM, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                        wrote:<br class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class=""><p class="">Exactly John, that's why the Board of
                                  Trustees or equivalent body has to
                                  approve policies that advances from
                                  this forum, to make sure they are in
                                  line with the applicable law,
                                  operational impacts, etc. But the
                                  Board has not power to make policies
                                  or define rules for allocation of
                                  revocation.</p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          Fernando - </div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">That is also incorrect in the ARIN region
                          (“But the Board has not power to make policies
                          or define rules for allocation of
                          revocation.”)  The ARIN Board of Trustees has
                          the full authority of the organization, having
                          been elected by the membership - this includes
                          the ultimate authority to adopt all of ARIN’s
                          number resource policies.  In its deep wisdom,
                          the ARIN Board of Trustees adopted a Policy
                          Development Process that delegates and
                          constrains its role in the normal course of
                          policy development, but that does not change
                          the underlying authority to define the
                          policies by which ARIN operates. </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class=""><p class="">More important to highlight is that
                                  any policies regarding allocation of
                                  revocation come exclusively from this
                                  forum. If this forum defines lack of
                                  payment is one of that reasons for
                                  revocation of resources and Board
                                  approves it according to the PDP, then
                                  the Board is free to adjust the RSA
                                  and whatever procedures necessary to
                                  make it happen.<br class="">
                                </p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div class="">Again, that is not the case in the ARIN
                            region, and it might be best if you refrain
                            from make assertions regarding the
                            functioning of authority in the ARIN region
                            without further research.  Note - I am also
                            available at any time if you wish to discuss
                            specifics of ARIN authority and operation -
                            feel free to reach out to me to arrange if
                            needed. </div>
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class=""><p class="">What I am saying with is that it is
                                  in its prerogatives for this forum to
                                  keep in the policy text that lack of
                                  payment is a reason for revocation.
                                  There is not reason to remove what is
                                  in there, it will not cause any harm
                                  or conflict to whatever the Board
                                  decides the RSA will be.</p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">The policy writeup notes "The AC’s
                              understanding is that community policy
                              should not include language referring to
                              fees, as such language is already present
                              in the Registration Services Agreement
                              (RSA)” – this statement is accurate, which
                              suggests that the proposed change to
                              policy text is well-considered.</div>
                          </div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Thanks,</div>
                          <div class="">/John</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">John Curran</div>
                            <div class="">President and CEO</div>
                            <div class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
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