<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The language, as is, is problematic because there’s a clear delineation between the NRPM and ARIN’s RSA/LRSAs. The former is intended to focus solely on allocation policies, and is a living document subject to change via the PDP. The RSA/LRSA agreements, however, are contracts whose language can only be modified by action from ARIN’s Board of Trustees. Contractual language on member fees, terms and conditions, and related topics are solely the domain of the RSA, and as such the inclusion of language regarding fees in the NRPM should be stricken - this language is already present in the RSA, where it belongs.<br class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>The primary reason for this delineation, as I understand it is that language in the RSA is necessary contractual language that ARIN must have in order to provide the necessary income to fulfill ARIN’s mission and responsibilities, and to protect ARIN from unnecessary legal liabilities that may threaten that mission. While number policy is subject to a community-driven policy development process, the language in ARIN's RSAs, for what I hope are obvious reasons, must be controlled far more tightly, hence the separation between the two.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I hope this helps clarify things.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>-Chris</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 15, 2021, at 3:36 PM, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Applies to all resources of course. If not in the appropriate
place then add it there then. But not remove something that is
very obvious.</p><p class="">How can it deal with the issues better by removing from the text
that part that makes it clear that resources may be revoked if
they are not payed ?</p><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/01/2021 20:33, David Farmer
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN-Dau0zq=LKxvH4qq6AveXHayU7UXf0_HvAoqo12PJ7_Ckozg@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Are you saying fees only apply to ISPs with IPv4,
the current text is in section 4.2.1.4, where section 4.2
applies to Allocations to ISPs...</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Furthermore, not paying fees is only one reason
resources may be revoked or reclaimed.</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">I think the new text is a better way to deal with
the issues.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at
17:09 Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div class=""><p class="">Yes fees are most a RSA thing, but I see no harm to
keep the actual wording as it is and make it loud and
clear that organizations that don't pay the fees are
subjected to resources revocation - which is up to this
forum to define - so no one <span lang="en" class=""><span class=""><span class="">may
plead ignorance about it. <br class="">
What is the problem to keep it as it is ? If the
newly proposed text mentions that ISPs should take
care to ensure that their annual renewal payment
is made by their anniversary due date, what's
wrong to also remind them that if that is not
fulfilled the resources may be revoked ?<br class="">
This makes part of the Fair and Impartial Number
Resources Administration principle.</span></span></span></p><p class=""><span lang="en" class=""><span class=""><span class="">I see no propose in this
proposal therefore I do not support it.</span></span></span></p><p class=""><span lang="en" class=""><span class=""><span class="">Regards<br class="">
Fernando<br class="">
</span></span></span></p>
<div class="">On 15/01/2021 17:55, ARIN wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">The
following Draft Policy has been revised:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">*
ARIN-2020-8: Clarify and Update 4.2.1.2 Annual
Renewal Fee</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Revised
text is below and can be found at:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2020_8/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2020_8/</a></span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">You
are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on
PPML. The AC will evaluate the discussion in order
to assess the conformance of this Draft Policy
with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource
policy as stated in the Policy Development Process
(PDP). Specifically, these principles are:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">*
Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource
Administration</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">*
Technically Sound</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">*
Supported by the Community</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">The
PDP can be found at:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a></span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Draft
Policies and Proposals under discussion can be
found at:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a></span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Regards,</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Sean
Hopkins</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Policy
Analyst</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">American
Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Draft
Policy ARIN-2020-8: Clarify and Update 4.2.1.2
Annual Renewal Fee</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Problem
Statement:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">The
January 2020 Policy Experience Report highlighted
that the existing language in Section 4.2.1.2
"Annual Renewal" references fees. Fees are not
considered a member qualification criteria. Since
fees aren't referenced elsewhere in community
policy, the wording was reviewed by the PEG.</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Policy
statement:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Given
that the Registration Services Agreement (RSA)
already contains language regarding fees, the AC
Shepherds recommend to eliminate 4.2.1.2. entirely
and add:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">2.X
Registration Services Agreement (RSA)</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Number
resources allocated or assigned by ARIN under
these policies are subject to a contractural
agreement between ARIN and the resource holder.
Throughout this document, any and all forms of
this agreement, past or future, are simply
referred to as the Registration Services Agreement
(RSA).</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Comments:
</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">The
AC’s understanding is that community policy should
not include language referring to fees, as such
language is already present in the Registration
Services Agreement (RSA)</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Registration
Services has informed us that "Section 4.2.1.2.
contains language detailing fee due dates,
encouraging on-time payments, and mentions
potential revocations. It also contains a
reference to web documentation that has evolved
significantly since this policy was implemented,
and may continue to do so. Essentially the entire
section is made of language that is already in the
Registration Services Agreement, and is generally
fee-focused, making it outside normal scope for
Internet number resource policy."</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Timetable
for implementation: Immediate</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Anything
else: </span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Community
input since adopting draft has informed this
direction. The 2.X placeholder is used as this
seems like it might be foundational enough to not
be 2.17 but the Shepherds would rather not upset
current indexing arbitrarily.</span></p>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
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-- <br class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">===============================================<br class="">
David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br class="">
Networking & Telecommunication Services<br class="">
Office of Information Technology<br class="">
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=============================================== </div>
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