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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Anthony,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As said, I will be happy to support any proposal that works, and consequently withdraw mine, but there is still a nit that makes it incompatible with ARIN.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’ve already sent you a private email a few days ago on that detail.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 12/10/20 22:04, "Anthony Ubah" <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear Jordi,<br><br>Hope you’re well. It’s been a while since our last call.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br>Regarding our conversation via zoom meeting platform, I remember that you showed support to our proposal, which we were very honoured. <br>May I know what possibly changed your mind? <br><br>As you know, the conclusion made by Madhvi on AFRINIC RPD was based on previous versions instead and not the latest version, which we have also duly sent to RPD mailing list. <br><br>It will be great if I can understand your thoughts on this.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:150%'><b><span style='font-size:9.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>Best Regards,</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:150%'><b><span style='font-size:9.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Garamond",serif'>UBAH ANTHONY</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:150%'><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#999999'>E-mail: </span><a href="mailto:anthony.ubah@gloworld.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif'>anthony.ubah@goldspine.com</span></a><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#999999'>.ng</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 6:37 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD>Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>The issue is a much bigger one … let me try to summarize.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>There are 3 different policy proposals for Inter-RIR transfers in AFRINIC, the older one is from myself. Other people decided to submit other proposals afterwards, when this one was already being discussed and being adapted to the inputs from the community and close to consensus.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>I submitted this policy proposal, almost at the same time as in LACNIC (which reached consensus and is already implemented), and at that time I learned the need about reciprocity. I checked that working with the RIRs staff (not in the public lists as it is, in my opinion an unnecessary noise) and it was done also by LACNIC.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>Actually, to know if there is reciprocity there is no need to check with the staff, but of course the staff of each RIR provides an “authoritative confirmation”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>To check if there is reciprocity you need to verify:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m7967462254293319813msolistparagraph style='margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US>Are there conditions on transfers from AFRINIC to recipients in each other RIR? In that case, are those “compatible”?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-m7967462254293319813msolistparagraph style='margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US>Are there conditions on transfers from each other RIR to AFRINIC? In that case, are those “compatible”?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>If I read my own policy and ARIN policy, being objective (not as an author), I can see if both of those questions are answered as “compatible”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>For example, I can’t imposse the condition to legacy resources transfered from AFRINIC to ARIN to lose the legacy status, because that’s against ARIN policy. Instead is fine if I say “incomming – to AFRINIC – transferred legacy resrourses, will no longer be regarded as legacy”, because the condition only apply if the transfer is AFRINIC to AFRINIC (intra-RIR) or from any RIR to AFRINIC.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>What is clear is that AFRINIC policies can’t impose condicions on *<b>any</b>* other RIR policies.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>So I think that authors can do this by themselves, and ask either directly to the staff or their own RIR staff to clarify that, but not in the list, because it is unnecesary noise and not related to the purpose of each RIR policy discussion list, which is discussing the proposals on that region, not asking questions regarded to other regions proposals.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>I already told, many times, the first one over year ago to the other 2 proposal authors that they need to do their job or ask the staff for help, and also told them “your proposals are incompatible/non-reciprocal at least with ARIN, so they lose their goal, because ARIN is the major donor of rerources to other regions”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>El 12/10/20 19:16, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Mueller, Milton L" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank">milton@gatech.edu</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>John I do not understand why ARIN is being so inhospitable in this case. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Obviously there is uncertainty and misunderstandings could be avoided if the discussion takes place in the open. Staff determinations also need to be accountable to the ARIN members and community. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>--MM</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Curran<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 12, 2020 10:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> Anthony Ubah <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com" target="_blank">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Eddy Kayihura <<a href="mailto:eddy@afrinic.net" target="_blank">eddy@afrinic.net</a>>; Taiwo Oyewande <<a href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com" target="_blank">taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Inter-RIR transfer Policy reciprocity with Afrinic_Resource Transfer Policy proposal<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>On 12 Oct 2020, at 8:30 AM, Anthony Ubah <<a href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com" target="_blank">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>For the sake of better understanding, please let me clarify a few things:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>One, it would be arduous and complicated if there is a middleman fugure mediating the conversation between ARIN, AFRINIC, and us the proposal authors. I would love to explore an option of communicating directly. We are also looking forward to the discussion from the ARIN community. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Lastly, the version sent by the Afrinic staff to the RPD list is not the latest text draft(shared in this thread), an thus we wish to discuss the newest version with the ARIN community directly.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Anthony - <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>You indicate that you wish to discuss the proposal with the ARIN community, but you also note that you seek to “inquire about its reciprocity with ARIN” – which is a determination that must be made by ARIN staff. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>This is likely the source of confusion, since if the topic you’d like to discuss with the ARIN community whether the proposal meets ARIN’s NRPM section 8.4 requirement ("Inter-regional transfers of IPv4 number resources and ASNs may take place only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and share reciprocal, compatible needs-based policies.”), it’s probably more likely a discussion with ARIN staff that you seek regarding the compatibility of the proposal. However, for sake of expediency, let’s proceed with that discussion here on the ppml list, as it’s possible that doing so may lead to related discussions on ARIN number resource policy. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>In order to get the discussion moving, I’d like to get clarity on two questions regarding your proposed policy – <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><b>1. Does the policy impose any conditions on recipient organizations in the ARIN region receiving transfers from AFRINIC-served entities?</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><b>2. Does the policy impose any conditions on source organizations in the ARIN region doing transfers to AFRINIC-served entities?</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>(These two questions are germane because when ARIN is reviewing InterRIR transfer requests, we simply apply the criteria provided in the NRPM – i.e. we do not evaluate requests against any conditions or criteria that may be contained in other RIR policy documents...) <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>/John<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>John Curran<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>American Registry for Internet Numbers<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>_______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>). 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The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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